Are we lousing the war we started in Iraq?

Note: this is in the pit because of the anti Bush sentiments I have stated, obviously the discussion could get a bit pissy, so I’ll just save the mods some time and put it here instead of great debates.

Here we go again, today 33 American Soldiers were hurt only this time, thank god, no one was killed, (give it a few more hours). Since the declaration of “The end of the war”, what has been the body count? What’s the ratio of “friendly” bodies versus “combatant” bodies – forget about the civilians and diplomats. Each day I see where the Iraqi military is picking us off one by one yet I still see no way out, nor any thing even close to an exit plan. (and don’t give me that mealy mouthed bullshit about how the *American appointed * Iraqi Governing Council is working on it, you know as soon as the Americans pull out, they are going to be the first ones against the wall). So now what? Is this going to be another Vietnam? And what was it again that President Bush was hoping to gain by this? Are we going to have to wait for the next president to clean up the mess? Obviously this man can’t do it. I did not vote for this man. And as the last few years have gone by I have lost more and more respect for what he could have been. And now, will he rig/steal another election so that he can prolong his megalomaniacal agenda, and continue to trash the half way decent reputation the United States had prior to his ::Ehem:: election to office. So that’s what I want to put on the table today. Are we winning, or are we lousing? How? And how will we see to it that this mess will not drag on and on for the next several years? Some one here with more political, historical and/or military understanding should be able to answer this question, or at least set me straight on exactly what the hell is going on over there – because all I see is a pissed off Iraqi population a lack of international respect, and a whole bunch of dead soldiers. Who wins/has won what here?

:dubious:

Yeah, I suspect many of the people in Iraq are developing lice infestations.

What what?

When was the last time I told you I could spill?

I’m not worried though, If the word processor doesn’t pick up my slack I know you will.

Thanks

Bwa ha ha ha! I like you, Janx.

Your post is quite reasonable, but I think the people who would normally be interested in responding to it are becoming burned out. Between Bush & Co. and the way the war in Iraq is going, we’ve had more posts on the subject than we can remember.

Thanks for the vote of confidence, but still, I never put in my 2 cents, If folks are sick of the subject I can understand, the thread will die. I feel better seeing it in print though. Oh BTW:

Woah, I got a serious problem:

**
One entry found for louse.
Main Entry: 2louse
Pronunciation: 'laus, 'lauz
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): loused; lous·ing
Date: 14th century
: to pick lice from : DELOUSE
**
then we got:
**
Main Entry: 1loose
Pronunciation: 'lüs
Function: adjective
Inflected Form(s): loos·er; loos·est
Etymology: Middle English lous, from Old Norse lauss; akin to Old High German lOs loose – more at -LESS
Date: 13th century
1 a : not rigidly fastened or securely attached b (1) : having worked partly free from attachments <a loose tooth>**

But, I think what I meant was:
**
Main Entry: lose
Pronunciation: 'lüz
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): lost /'lost/; los·ing /'lü-zi[ng]/
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English losian to perish, lose, from los destruction;
**
Great! Just GREAT! A perfectly serviceable (!) rant /debate all shot to hell because of a little error.
Maybe I can get a mod to fix it.

If not you know what I meant and it will be obvious by your answer that I have crushed you with the Iron fist of logic, such that you have no answer, except to make fun of my spelling. Thus I stand, Bush is a first class bone head.

Yes we are losing it, in fact from this point on what we do will only determine how much we’ve lost. As how best to proceed? Who knows? We’ve pissed off the international world, we’re wasting money like no tomorrow, and the Iraqis hate us. If nothing more came out of the 87 billion, the Iraqis should at least like us, and that ain’t even happening.

I don’t think anyone will want to help Bush clean up his mess, and to be honest I don’t blame them. I would tell him to kiss my fucking ass. So step one, get new leadership in the US, then begin to pick up the pieces.

** World Eater ** wrote…

I guess this is the up shot of the whole deal. Exit Bush. Then does anyone have a viable plan?
Would Sodam (sp?) come out of hiding and re-rally power and put things back at square one?
I don’t think we could simply bail out just yet, but I would like to see something more affirmative.
Ok George, you did it, you personally went to Baghdad and thumbed your nose at your fathers enemy
NOW WHAT?

:smack:

Time to kill Saddam and skedaddle. What? That could take years? We don’t have that. That’s the problem in a nutshell. If he comes back into power the only happy people will be some Europeans. regime loyalists, and Syria.

I’d expect that Saddam would make Iraq look like mid-1970s Cambodia (again), but with less humidity.

Who knows, it’s a real shitpickle over there right now. New leadership, bring in the UN, apoligize and take it from there.

The first step is to realize we won’t have our cake and eat it too.

The end goal is for us to get the hell out of a lot of places, and to worry about the US more.

Are you winning or are you losing?

Depends on who you are.

Bush has got his photo-ops on the battleship and serving turkey to troops.
He has passed billions of dollars in rebuilding contracts to companies who funded his election campaign, and secured vast oil contracts for other contributors.
He has convinced a significant proportion of the US voting public that Saddam was behind 9/11, and Bush is the man to win the War on Terror.
So what if he’s regarded by the rest of the World as a self-serving politician who’ll do anything to be re-elected?
The rest of the World don’t vote for him.

As well, we are becoming callous and unsympathetic. Case in point: the recent deaths of nine children in Afghanistan. An operation undertaken to take out one, one!, mind you, criminal terrorist. It hit the news and it faded. Expressions of outrage? Expressions of deep remorse? Not us.

Was it that long ago? Was it really so long ago that such a story would have shocked us?

And please: if you’re rushing to post something to remind poor naive E. about the realities of war, about broken eggs and omelettes, please don’t bother. I can see the broken eggs, they’re all over the place. What I don’t see is the omellete.

I see a big 'ol shit omellete, does that count?

Alas, yes. There are those amongst us who would beam with pride as they display the brown concoction, and modestly deflect our (expected) effusive outpourings of praise as they slice us off a serving and plop! it on a plate. Sprig of parsley, slice of orange.

But in the words of Olaf, “glad and big”: “There is some shit I will not eat!”

I dunno. For that kinda money, couldn’t you just have bought the damned country. My handy World Almanac is from '97, but back then, annual GNP/capita was $2.000. With $87 billion to spend, that would mean about 2 years worth of pay for every man woman and child in the country. Ship that money off, tell them to round up Saddam and his lackeys. Get a free, democratic Iraq, with a stable governmant, a population that loves the US, an intact infrastructure and the oil to boot.
Take Saddam to Holland and put him on trial.

But I guess, sending Apache helicopters and young poeple in fatigue to die, is more macho or something.

At least we would’ve gotten something for our money, Gaspode. Now all we’ve got is a country full of people that hate us, a world full of people that hate us, and a years-long prospect of rebuilding a country that doesn’t want us around.

Gaspode: logic will get you nowhere with the American electorate.

Today’s specials at the World Eater Cafe:

Shit omlette: $4.75
Shit Sandwhich: $5.25
Shit n’ Beans: $3.50

All entrees come with shitpickle and shitslaw.

What’s on the sweet trolley?

All personally served by Pres Bush. :smiley:

I got into a debate with a co-worker today that frustrated me to no end. She sent me a glurgy picture supposedly of U.S. GIs in Iraq lined up in formation to spell 9 11 We Remember.

When I pointed out that it doesn’t seem Iraq had anything to do with the September 11 hijacks, she replied, “How can you be sure.” The lack of evidence doesn’t bother some people. So Bush repeats it over and over and too many people seem to swallow it.

Tell me, how do you judge winning or losing? Deaths are newsworthy, American deaths most of all; other stuff isn’t.

More Americans died on D-Day alone. Don’t you agree that their sacrifice was worth it?

Try putting your hatred of Bush/Republicanism aside and looking at what has been achieved. A vicious tyrant has been overthrown. One who sponsored terrorism and murdered 300,000 of his countrymen. A Stalin in the making. He’s out there still, probably, but we’ll get him.

Anti-Bushists seem to expect perfection off-bat. The real world isn’t so conducive: Iraqis have never - not in 12000 years - known democracy.

Iraq is the cradle of civilisation, but is late-come to democracy. It’ll take time but we’ll nurture it.