Do the tenets of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints conflict with the Nicene Creed?
I realize this appears googlable, but issues may not be as clear cut as that.
Any member of a non CoJCoLDS Christian church will say yes, they do. We have Mormon Dopers here; I’ll defer to them on their church’s stance on the Creed.
Mormons do believe in God the Father, Jesus Christ His Son, and the Holy Spirit – but their understanding of them and how they are interrelated is far different from that of ‘normal’ (i.e., non Mormon) Christianity’s.
Could you be more specific as to how? (taken as a given that your interpretation will be as a non-LDS Christian)
Latter-day Saints agree with almost all of the Nicene Creed–but there’s that one snag. While we believe that God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost are one in purpose and intent, we do not believe that they are not one in substance.
From The Encyclopedia of Mormonism, entry Godhead:
And same source, but under the entry God:
LDS folks are also usually puzzled by mainstream Christianity’s frequent insistence on the Nicene Creed as a litmus test for being a Christian. If the N.C. is not scripture, why does it constitute the test? If it is scripture, what makes it so, and why the outrage over our habit of adding to the scriptural canon? Actually we can quite see why Roman Catholics would insist on it, but not so much with the sola scriptura Protestants.
Does that help? 
I could, but my explanation would, despite my best efforts, sound like mockery of Mormon doctrine. Google the term “eternal progression” with reference to Mormon doctrine – what they believe concerning God the Father conflicts completely with non-LDS Christian undersanding of Him.
According to my understanding, from reading LDS literature, such Councils as Nicea and the Creeds resulting from them are considered part of the Apostasy, thus creating the need for the eventual Restoration of the True Church.
Sort of, I guess. LDS ideas are that the priesthood–the authority for people to act in God’s name–was lost, probably sometime in the 2nd century. All the arguing over theology and filioque and Arianism, etc. were symptoms of the loss of revelation from God. So by the time the Nicene Council convened to try to impose some order on Christian theology, there was no one who could receive revelation for the Church, and there hadn’t been for generations. They may have been good, well-intentioned men, but they did not have the authority to set doctrine.
By this time, also, quite a lot of Greek philosophy had crept into Christian theology, which LDS folks see as a problem, rather than a positive influence as many mainstream Christians will argue. So the Hellenization of Christianity was also part of the apostasy.
A good source for this issue is The Inevitable Apostasy and the Promised Restoration, by Tad Callister.
Brigham Young also said that if the church ever renounced polygamy, it would be in apostacy.
Not to offend, (yeah, whatever) but I lived in the SLC area for many years, and IMO the church has become a PAC for the Republican party. They are not the “Christians” they would have us all believe.
Should Romney achieve the Presidency, we should all become Canadians.
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This is GQ, Mozart1220. Save your political jabs for GD or the Pit.
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Ask a Mormon what the difference is between “The Heavenly Father” and “Heavenly Father”. I guess it depends what planet you’re on.
I’ve been a Mormon for quite some time, rayman, and have known more than a few Mormons. I’ve never encountered a comment like yours before. Care to explain it?
Yeah, I don’t think most Mormons would have a clue what you mean if you asked them the difference between “Heavenly Father” and “The Heavenly Father.” I assume it’s a reference to the Mormon doctrine of eternal progression that Polycarp refers to above, which holds that human beings can continue to progress after resurrection to become gods like our current Heavenly Father, but “Heavenly Father” or “The Heavenly Father” is only ever used to refer to God, who is a separate individual from Jesus Christ in Mormonism. As dangermom pointed out, the “trinity” is viewed as three separate individuals, who are united in purpose to bring about the immortality and eternal life of mankind.
I have to go with Monty on this one. I’ve been a lifelong Mormon, and the best response I can muster to this is “Huh?”
Thanks, all. The reason for my question was to gauge, to an extent, how closely the LDS hew to Catholic/Protestant/Orthodox Christianity at a very basic level. As you point out, the LDS view more traditional Christians as essentially apostate, and many if not most Christians don’t view the LDS as Christians at all given their additions to the canon. That said, if differences in practice and basic (*very *basic) statements of faith are relatively similar, I can see more practical accomodation between the groups, similar to the essential rapproachment between everyday Catholics and Protestants.
Aaaand I probably shouldn’t say more about this line of thought in GQ. Thanks.
You believe that the Mormon god is “a god”, the god of this planet. That’s why he/she/it is is not “THE GOD” of the universe as you see it. You believe that if you live good Mormon lives, you’ll be the god of your own planet someday. Then you’ll be “Heavenly Father” to the inhabitants. But, you won’t be “The Heavenly Father” because you’ll be infringing on the LDS guy next to you who has HIS own planet.
No. That’s not at all what the LDS doctrine is.
I don’t see why not. Sounds like a good discussion to me. Mormons do want to work more closely with other denominations and to be on friendly, respectful terms. That’s a goal for us.
You should understand that while yes, we do see other Christian denominations as missing some crucial elements of the gospel, that doesn’t mean that we don’t respect their faith or see them as equals. We would not say that other folks are not Christian, or that they are going to hell or that they won’t be saved.
Rayman, you don’t seem to have a very good grasp of the ideas you’re speaking of, which is quite understandable given that they are routinely warped and relayed by people who have an interest in spreading trouble for Mormons. Besides which, it’s not an idea that we claim to understand terribly well ourselves, and not one we speak of very much at church–we have more immediate things to worry about, and anything like that is so far away that we don’t worry about it much.
The Father is the Creator? I thought LDS doctrine was that Jesus Christ created the world.
The following portions of the Nicene Creed (381) werecut and pasted from Wiki. The responses re: the Mormon position were from memory. Perhaps active Mormon can doa better job filling in the doctrine here.
Nicene 325/381
We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.
Mormon
Ditto.
Nicene
And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds (æons), Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father;
Mormon
The Father and Jesus are separate.
Nicene
by whom all things were made;
Mormon
Ditto.
Nicene
who for us men, and for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Ghost of the Virgin Mary, and was made man;
Mormon
Jesus was born of a mortal woman.
Nicene
he was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate, and suffered, and was buried, and the third day he rose again, according to the Scriptures, and ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of the Father;
Mormon
Ditto.
Nicene
from thence he shall come again, with glory, to judge the quick and the dead;
Mormon
Ditto.
Nicene
And in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of life, who proceedeth from the Father, who with the Father and the Son together is worshiped and glorified, who spake by the prophets.
Mormon.
The Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost are not one, but a team of three. Life comes from the Father. Salvation from the Son. Comfort, guidance, etc. from the Holy Ghost.
Nicene
In one holy catholic and apostolic Church; we acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins; we look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.
Mormon.
Ditto, except for the first 7 words. Mormons believe that the authority of the Catholic churh was removed and later restored through Joseph Smith to the Church of Jesus Christ of LatterDay Saints.
Morgenstern, thanks for the analysis. Just a couple of comments (or perhaps “quibbles” would be more accurate):
First, I don’t think any Christian body holds that Mary wasn’t a mortal woman; at least I was never taught that in 12+ years of RC education. What set her apart from all other women (in the RC worldview, at least) is that she was born without the stain of Original Sin, making her a fitting vessel for the Son’s incarnation.
And second, notice the small “c” in “catholic” — that indicates a universal church rather than a specific denomination. It’s also what allows Anglicans/Episcopalians, Methodists, etc. to use the Nicene creed without alteration.