I’m sorry.
That’s sincere.
stpauler, made comments that seemed to me to indicate hatred of Jews, declaring “same cult, different day” in response to comments about Jews and I wanted to know where that came from.
How is classifying Mormons as “barbarians” dramatically different that classifying Jews as “vermin”?
I honestly don’t see the difference.
True, just as most Muslims are convinced that Jews are evil, worship Ezra just as the Christians worship Jesus, and believe that on Judgment Day the stones themselves will stand up and announce to all good Muslims that a Jew is hiding behind them and direct them to kill Jew.
end sarcastic comment.
Look, I’ll assume you recognize the above comment is complete bullshit even though it’s supported by both the Quran and the Hadiths.
There is a rather technical term for assuming that people believe what is in the sacred texts of their religions.
It’s called “foolishness.”
Most American recognize it when it comes to mainline Christian denominations because they’re more familiar with them, but it’s not just true of them.
I think your hypothetical response would probably be well within the topic at hand, but I respect your reticence to discuss stpauler’s offhand and fairly silly “pox on all religions” throwaway comment. If I were responding to your theoretical response, I would point out that while it’s silly to call Mormonism’s tenets in the 21st century barbaric, a case could be made that trying to cure homosexuality by electrocuting someone while they watch gay porn is less than humane.
Marley: I trust that the above is on topic as I understood your mod note to be to stick to discussing Mormonism and not Islam or Judaism or drone attacks.
Not everyone can fight every battle. Some people just like green jello, need something to do on Sundays, and really don’t want to start a fight with their parents.
I have voted for members of the Democratic Party. I absolutely *loathe[/i[ war and the bullshit we are doing abroad that kills innocent people. The Dems have been complicit with it, and have played an enabling role. Does that make me a personal killer of Iraqi babies? Of course not. Do I feel like I have a moral obligation to fight tooth and nail for a change in US foreign policy? Not really. I have my causes I fight for, but if I walked around making sure every single organization that I’m associated with is absolutely kosher, I’d never get anything done. And frankly at this point in time I don’t think I could do much that would change things. They are going to do what they do with or without me. Do i think that eventually the Democratic Party will embrace the views of people like me? In this particular case, I don’t have a ton of hope, but I’d love to be a part of that change if it comes.
Do you also have such contempt for Jews and Muslims, who belong to religions that don’t allow men and women to pray together or be Imams, Cantors, or Rabbis or for girls to receive Bat Mitzvahs?
If not, why?
Definition of barbaric:
b : possessing or characteristic of a cultural level more complex than primitive savagery but less sophisticated than advanced civilization.
The cultural level of Mormonism would include cult-like behaviors while eschewing scientific information to preserve their level of faith.
[QUOTE=kimmy gibbler]
Mormons a gruesome cultists who cleave to barbaric tenets (which, evidently, is something less than saying they are barbaric) and who should be wished good riddance from the American political arena for no other reason than that they are Mormons).
[/QUOTE]
No, you need to read the words I actually typed instead of inferring what you choose and making hyperbolic statements as is your *de rigeur *in this thread. I said: “I’m glad one of its leaders was rejected from office”. Was Romney just a member of the LDS or was he one of its leaders? Romney was in fact a bishop in the LDS.
Here are a couple examples of him being “advancedly civilized” (AKA barbaric) as a bishop.
Romney was not a leader of the LDS church when he ran for president. He is not currently a bishop nor a stake president. Those offices are not permanent offices as they are in some other churches.
I suppose one could believe unsupported comments by an anonymous poster, or one would believe someone with inside information. Perhaps the spokesperson of the church would be a good start. In an article in the New Your Time (it’s probably listed as an anti-Mormon source, which is why many Mormons wouldn’t dare read it) titled Mormons Tipped Scale in Ban on Gay Marriage
And also from the same article.
Prop 8 was defeated in a large part because of the Mormon church and the directives it made to its members.
It is a sick organization.
Well, yeah. But as the world’s most famous Mormon has been busily earning himself a place in hell, by Mormon doctrine, the Mormon church itself has been rather quiet about this fact, and of course Mormons supported Mitt Romney in this election by overwhelming margins.
It’s one thing for them to officially ignore the election altogether, but if they’re going to mention Mitt’s candidacy, it’s a rather glaring omission for them to fail to make some acknowledgement of his having lied his ass off all year, and how that doesn’t exactly square with Mormon beliefs.
So we’re talking a clear win of tribal loyalty over supposed tribal principles. Just sayin’.
The last time they tried to diversity, it didn’t go so well.
Don’t you think public condemnation would be a breach of privacy, assuming he is being reprimanded for lying? A priest can’t blab about his congregants sins and neither can Church leaders.
Also, Tokyo, all your quotes prove is that a large percentage of Mormons are conservative and have the belief that legal marriage is for a heterosexual monogamous relationship and they campaigned just like any American citizen is allowed to for whatever cause they believe in and want other people to vote for.
I don’t personally agree with it because I am not threatened in my marriage by two consenting adults getting married and committed to each other legally. I think it makes complete sense, and I have shared this with my Bishop and friends in the church and I have not been reprimanded or excommunicated or shunned by my peers.
What happened in California was probably way over the top and skirted the line of political propriety, but no one did any thing illegal. It was a hot button, highly emotionally charged issue and people are bound to get upset. Why some Mormons were particularly attacked for donating money and not the other mentioned groups is telling. Their actions were reprehensible, perhaps, but not illegal.
Nobody accused them of doing anything illegal. “Reprehensible” (your word there) is perfectly accurate, but it wasn’t just “some Mormons” operating on their own. The LDS church encouraged that reprehensible behavior. That makes it hard to respect the LDS church.
Other groups who donated money were and are roundly condemned around here, but you started this thread about Mormons. If you start on about Focus on the Family, it’ll go pretty much the same way.
Can we please make the distinction between individual practitioners of a religion and the religion itself? Lumping all Mormons together is stupid, false, and discriminatory. I belong to the Church, but I am an individual with in it, I am not the Church.
And these reprehensible actions were urged by their church.
But at least your church isn’t currently urging its members to do something illegal. That’s quite an improvement, and almost something to be proud of.
You first.
In your OP, you posted a statement made by the church, and you were then very defensive when that statement was attacked. Few, if any, posters have attacked you individually, but a lot of people have gone after the LDS church as an organization. Since being a Mormon is a large part of your identity (I’m presuming here, but I don’t think I’m wrong), you feel like you’ve been personally attacked. You haven’t.
You’ve said that your church does things you don’t approve approve of, but I (again) presume that you think it does more harm than good on the whole. Others, including me, don’t. While you work to change the church from the inside, we’ll work against it from the outside. I’d love it if you and other Mormons like you could get the LDS church to change, but I doubt you can. Unless and until you do, I want to reduce the influence that the church has on state-by-state and nationwide discussions of abortion, same-sex marriage, and other issues. That means calling out the LDS church a bigoted organization when it acts like one.
I’m sorry you feel like you’re being attacked, but I’m not going to stop.
No, I don’t think that. Why would I belong to something I thought did more harm than good?
Sorry, that was supposed to be the other way around.
Oh, ok.
Thanks for clearing that up 
Plus I admire your conviction in fighting for what you believe in, so no offense taken.
And gays can get married in your church right AprilR? So long as they marry a member of the opposite sex. At least, that was your position in a previous discussion.
Can I suggest that this thread be closed or moved? It has become less and less about a statement released by the LDS Church and more and more a statement on Mormonism in general. Plenty of places for that discussion, but not here, I don’t think.
And I am sorry that my first post contributed to the derailment but in my defense at least my hijack did have to do with Prop 8 which was a ballot initiative in an Election.