The Lions in South Africa

The Game Room
1

Not sure if there’s enough rugby fans here to contribute much to this thread but what the hey. The six nations are over and its that glorious time which comes around every four year when Irish, English, Welsh and Scottish fans bitch and moan about who should represent us for the Lions. So in the interest of kicking of a debate here is my in the works Lions Test XV
Backs:

Full Back - Lee Byrne (Wales). Better on attack than Rob Kearney, better in defence than Delon Armitage.

Right Wing - Tommy Bowe (Ireland). God help me, I still can’t accept that he’s not slow but he seems to have a nose for the try line.

Outside Centre - Brian O’Driscoll (Ireland) (Captain). Can’t really say more than what has already been said about his performance this season.

Inside Centre - Riki Flutey (England). Nobody else really in this poisition stood out. Could be the first player to play for and against the Lions.

Left Wing - Shane Williams (Wales). Might just switch him to whatever side Habana plays on.

Outside Half - Ronan O’Gara (Ireland). Controversial. Poor tackler, goal kicking went a bit haywire. But the man has huge balls.

Scrum Half - Mike Blair (Scotland). Used to playing behind a beaten pack. Better pass than Mike Phillips or Tomas O’Leary.

Forwards:

Loosehead Prop - Gethin Jenkins (Wales). The equal of Marcus Horan in the loose but a better scrummager.

Hooker - Jerry FLannery (Ireland). No particuler stand out here. Considering my second row is Irish it just makes the most sense.

Tighthead Prop - Euan Murray (Scotland). Again no particular stand out but he’s a big lump.

Left Lock - Donncha O’Callaghan (Ireland). Just provides more agression than than any other candidate.

Right Lock - Paul O’Connell (Ireland). Superman wears his pyjamas.

Blindside Flanker - Joe Woresly (England). Again, bit of agression.

Openside Flanker - David Wallace (Ireland). Not as good a groundhog as Martyn Williams, but still too powerful to leave out. Could play at 8, but his positional play lets him down in that position.

No. 8 - Jaime Heaslip (Ireland). Could do some damage on the hard ground of the Highveld. Providing the pack gets parity.

Subs:

Hooker - Matthew Rees (Wales)
Prop - Adam Jones (Wales)
Second Row - Alun Wyn Jones (Wales)
Back Row - Martyn Williams (Wales)
Scrum Half - Mike Phillips (Wales)
Inside Back - Stephen Jones (Wales)
Outside Back - Delon Armitage (England)

So there we go 8 Irish, 3 Welsh, 2 English and 2 Scottish in the XV. And an outstanding amount of Welsh on the bench. That wasn’t intentional btw. Any argument?

2

I’m really concerned about the fly-half (number 10) position - I don’t think O’Gara is the player he was 3 years ago, but it’s a struggle to come up with a viable replacement. Having said that, I think I would go with Stephen Jones, because he’s less likely to get absolutely flattened out of the game. And he’s a much better kicker than O’Gara at the moment. Any chance of Paterson getting in the team anywhere? It’s almost worth it for his kicking, I think.

Can’t disagree with most of the rest, mainly because I haven’t followed rugby that closely recently. In addition to your subs, I think Nick Easter and Harry Ellis deserve places in the squad after good Six nations performances, and possibly Monye as well as an impact player. I thought Lee Mears played well, too, but he is probably too small against South Africa.

As a side issue, anyone know what has happened to Andrew Sheridan? A few years ago he was running the show in the scrums and in the loose, but now he rarely seems to make any yards.

3

I think you’ve made a good basic selection.

However I would put Mike Phillips as 1st choice scrum half because:

  • he has his regular partner Stephen Jones
  • he’s a big lad (those South Africans are tough tacklers :eek:)

And that brings Stephen Jones to 1st choice no 10.

Although Worsley is a good tackler, you’ve got to bring Tom Croft. He’s tall (adds lineout options), fast (has played sevens for England) and well-thought of.

4

I call bullshit on the O’Gara has huge balls statement. IMO, he’s just about complete rubbish as a defender. The only reason he’s still playing for Ireland is because they haven’t got anyone else. And it doesn’t take huge balls to be a good kicker (which admittedly he is).

5

I think he struggled with injuries and then lost a bit of form. Was never the best scrummager but still he would be of use in South Africa.

Patterson definately should go in my opinion. Could actually make an ideal choice on the bench. He is a fantastic playmaker, but I’ve noticed that he rarely takes a shot at goal from more than 30-40 yards out. Deadly from inside that range, but still you would like to see him banging em over from nearer the half way line.

I stick to my statement about O’Gara. He freely admits he is not the best tackler, but I can think of one missed tackle on Luke McAllister down in New Zealand where this actually cost the game. He takes an unbeleiveable amount of punishment as he is targeted more than anyone else who plays that position, and its a targeted position to start with. But he has consistantly come back to win key games. He reminds me of Wilkinson in the 2007 World Cup. He might miss a few straight forward ones but you trust him to nail the key ones. Against England this year he had a poor game, but he collected himself enough to slot a moderately difficult one to edge it for Ireland. After being used as a speed bump against Wales, he got up and scored the drop goal when most of the Welsh defence was offside. He has kept his head in two Heineken Cup finals and now a Grandslam decider which I think qualifies him to miss the odd tackle. Ireland have played South Africa on a number of occasions and O’Gara’s tackling has never been the difference between the sides. Besides if South Africa want to win this series be sending big runners up the middle of the park all day then I think the Lions coaching team will be relieved. Its burning us on the edges with Habana and Peterson that probably keeps Geech awake at night.

6

He didn’t kick particularly well in the Six Nations this year, if England had been a tiny bit better that could have cost them the Grand Slam, and possibly the Championship. Against SA, it’s going to be even more important to take those chances, which is why I’d really like Paterson in the team - it’s just he’s not quite strong enough in other important areas of the game. Agreed about his range, though.

I thought Tom Croft had an average Six Nations, he didn’t seem to me to put his case forward much.

Some prominent rugby person (Jeremy Guscott? I don’t remember) put Jonny Wilkinson forward as the Lions fly half. I think that shows how desperate the situation is. I certainly don’t think he should (or will) even make the squad, for good reason.

7

If he got some solid playing time between now and the summer then I would rate Wilkinson’s chances. But that is unlikely considering injuries and the fact that Newcastle have nothing to really play for. Maybe bringing him and giving him a chance to prove himself fit with the mid-weekers might work.

Just some news that the only other real candidate for the 12 jersey, Gavin Henson, has picked up an injury that might keep him out for the rest of the season. Not that he was anywhere near in form to get the jersey. Think that moves Gordon D’Arcy up to second choice behind Flutey. But he’s another man who needs game time. At least he’ll have at least one Heineken Cup match, plus a fairly physical Magners League match against Munster next week. Any chance of Aaron Mauger faking his own death so he can be reborn as Lions qualified?