I’m not concerned with “winning” an argument over who is the best center in the NFL with you. I’m more concerned with the thoughtless devotion to homerism that makes someone call people names and ignore actual arguments when they dare cast even the slightest aspersion on someone who happens to currently wear a Steelers uniform. It’s that instant “Well that guys a prick” and “you just hate the Steelers” reflex that permeates these threads and clouds any possible discussion of actual football.
Ah, sweet irony!
Can you at least try to make your dumbass insults make even just a lick of sense?
You did the exact same thing that you are accusing me (and others) of doing. However, before you put things in quotes while replying to me, show me where in any of my posts did I write “you hate him because he is a Steeler” or “your team sucks worse”, or anything of the sort. I have no idea why the author decided to crap on Pouncey. Maybe the guy doesn’t like Pouncey because of where he went to college, or hit on his girlfriend, or a thousand other reasons. I would have had the same reaction if Pouncey played for the Colts. It seemed like a strange comment in an article about the NFL All-Pro team. And personally, I doubt the author could actually break down o-lineman play. If a guy can’t do a snap, is always missing the count, gets beat for sacks repeatedly and can’t block for the running game, it will be pointed out by the announcers, and we viewers will see it. But if a center is good, and is doing his job, you aren’t noticing him. You don’t know any differences between Mangold and Pouncey. It is just your opinion, based on whatever you’ve read. You can’t seriously tell us that you watched all of Mangold’s and Pouncey’s snaps last year… And oh, by the way, the other God knows how many centers actually played in the NFL last season.
You want to discuss the performance of NFL centers? OK. Tell us what you know. Tell us how you evaluate each center, and demonstrate that your knowledge is better than the guys who voted for the All-Pro team.
Otherwise, you are as bad as the people you are complaining about. Nick Mangold is better than Pouncey? Maybe he is. I don’t know, because I don’t watch O-lineman much at all, and I couldn’t make that judgement. I seriously doubt you could either. You don’t like Nick Mangold or Ohio State, but you threw his name out. Fine. Tell us why. “How he plays on the field.” isn’t good enough, and either is quoting stats from PFF. If it was good enough, as I said, they don’t need to have anyone voting for an All-Pro team, they could just look at stats. Which, by the way, would be fine with me too, because I don’t feel better about myself if a Steeler is an all-pro. “How he plays on the field” is just another way to say “my guy is better than your guy.” There is nothing behind that except your opinion… Maybe it is bolstered by stats at PFF, but seriously, I have no idea where Mangold finished compared with Pouncey and I don’t care. If Mangold (or anyone else) was so outstanding, more than 7 people would have voted for him. Unless, of course, everyone who votes is an idiot, and your opinion is the only one that matters.
You seem to be lumping me into an NFL fanboy category, who thinks his team (and their players, owners, fans, etc.) are better than everyone else’s. No, I let that sort of petty crap go in grade school.
Who gives a shit who is the All-Pro center? You seem to.
Fascinating. Precisely where in this thread do you think I did that.
“That read to me like sour grapes by the writer, but I have no idea why that vote would upset him.” You immediately assume, even while you say you have no clue, that the author has some “sour grapes” against a guy for pointing out that his accolades don’t always match his play on the field. And then, to double down on it, you assume that just because I posit that Nick Mangold is a better center than a Steeler, that somehow I root for the Jets or love Ohio State (without bothering to check, of course). That’s precisely what I was bemoaning: this idea that if you think some player is better than a Steeler, it must be based on homerism or hatred rather than considering the actual play on the field.
And you continue to do it. To you, it couldn’t possibly be that the author concluded, based on evidence, that Pouncey wasn’t as good on the field as the awards he was given; it had to be because he hates Pouncey or his school or his girlfriend or something. It immediately devolves any conversation about football into dumbass tribalism.
Of course you don’t. You don’t know, you can’t be bothered to check. You just doubt it because … well he said something slightly offensive about a Steeler player.
Yep. Based (mostly) on what I’ve read. Not what team I root for or where I went to college or what team they play for.
No, I haven’t. But Pro Football Focus has. And I used their evidence and conclusions to support my opinion.
And just so you know, I also don’t conduct medical experiments for myself, yet I trust doctors who do. Go figure.
You still don’t get it. The basis of my opinion that Mangold is better than Pouncey were the ratings by Pro Football Focus. That’s having an opinion based on actual evidence. Not whose jersey the person wears or where they went to school.
If you’re interested in discussing the intricacies of playing center though, I’d be more than happy to educate you.
And I can’t wait until you start enforcing this requirement for every opinion offered in this thread, rather than just me. That will be fun.
Trade Vick for Tebow.
What will happen if Vick is put in the Cleveland away game and he’s under center in the Dog Pound end of the field? The implosion of the Multi-verse, I’m afraid.
Jesus Christ, dude. :dubious:
Why would I bother to check? I think you’ve mistaken me for someone who gives a shit.
Before I reply to Hamlet’s poignant post, can anyone tell me what team Hamlet roots for?
Sorry that you’ll have to wait a bit. Unlike you, I don’t have the ability to check PFF, read Bleacher Report, crank out multi-paragraph responses on message boards, or research your favorite NFL team during the day.
Thanks in advance to anyone for helping with my research.
Packers. But a good part of my point is that who I and the author you don’t know anything about, root for DOESN’T FUCKING MATTER.
When, or rather if, it ever dawns on you, do please let us know, will you?
But I AM a homer. OF COURSE I’m going to claim my team’s first-team All-Pro center is the best center in football. OF COURSE I’m going to get my nose bent out of joint because some guy writes something implying that he didn’t deserve the honor. I’m simply ready to move on from that because really, what’s the point of continuing? We could do this for multiple pages and we’d still come back to that. So let’s not.
I mean, I also think that Ben Roethlisberger is a top-5 quarterback, Antonio Brown is the best receiver in the league, and Le’Veon Bell is the best all-around running back in the league. I have pretty good evidence for all of those, too. Should we flail away at each other for months disagreeing about that?
…
Anyway, Michael Vick. Christ. I did my share of trash-talking about him back in the day, and now I’m expected to support him? Nope, I can’t make that leap. I know the Steelers needed a backup quarterback. Vick was not the only choice.
I’ve been willing for a long time to forgive the dog thing. He did his time, he’s not done anything since then, there’s no real reason to beat him up about it any more. But there are people who will never, ever forgive him for it. Why would Pittsburgh want to draw that attention to themselves? Is it worth it for a washed-up, barely backup-level quarterback? I would rather have had Rex Grossman, even he couldn’t overthrow the Steelers’ receivers this year.
I just don’t get it.
I wouldn’t come back to it if you’d actually understand what I’m saying. I don’t care that you think Pouncey is the best center in the NFL. I disagree, but it’s a tenable argument based on his play last year. But that doesn’t matter, and the fact that it still hasn’t sunk in with you yet is highly frustrating.
It’s the inane responses to those who disagree with your homeric (see what I did there?) views that is annoying. The brainless response that since the author said Pouncey didn’t play up to his accolades for a few years, he must be a prick is what bothers me. It’s the “well, if you think Mangold is better, than you must be a Jets fan, or a Ohio State fan, or hate Pouncey” tripe that SFP trots out. Be a homer all you like, but don’t be a stupid homer who assumes that, unless you agree that the Steelers are the best, they’re haters or pricks.
Do you understand what I’m talking about now. Or do I have to say it 8 more times?
You’re splitting your head against a very thick wall.
Vick? Seriously? Jeez…
…and now Martavis Bryant is looking at a 4-game suspension. I could go full SenorBeef and start making excuses for it, but I won’t, mostly because he should know better and deserves to be suspended if he can’t lay off the shit. Multiple times, too, a 4-game suspension means that he’s been caught more than once while already on notice.
Looks like Wheaton will be seeing more balls coming his way. If he’s smart he’ll take this opportunity and run with it.
And on National Dog day, of all days.
Why are you shouting with your keyboard? Seriously, what is wrong with you?
I am not sure why I am bothering, since you seem to KNOW EVERYTHING ABOUT ALL THINGS FOOTBALL (ooh, caps lock! Fun!) but what the hell… You amuse me.
Let’s review, first… Since I didn’t do the proper “research” to post in a Steeler football thread to your satisfaction, and didn’t do a search on what team you root for, I have no credibility. Oh, and since I thought the comment the author made seemed a bit odd, I must be a blind “homer”. Yeah, let’s go with that. :rolleyes:
OK, I went back to the article that has caused the hubbub. I actually read most of it.
Here is what the author, Chris Wesseling, wrote:
Based on the rest of that article, that seemed odd to me. He basically says “Pouncey is over-rated and this is just another example of it. He had his best season this year, but he gets awards all the time, and just because it was Pouncey’s personal best season doesn’t mean he was deserving the All-Pro award.” Show me where else in that article he impugned any other All-Pro player like that?
The only other “negative” thing, if you want to call it that, is what he wrote about the fullback position. But his words weren’t personal as much as they were discussing the value of the FB position in the current NFL. Oh, and he also thought the PK, Adam Vinatieri, “who didn’t miss a kick until the season finale”, wasn’t the best kicker in the league. He thought Cowboy’s Dan Bailey was, because he watched “Game Rewind” all season. :dubious: I know I’m convinced, although I am guessing you would need to confirm who the best kicker is from your intensive, long, exhaustive study in all things NFL (and of course, checking who see who finished first on PFF).
You slammed Pouncey with your “misspelled Nick Mangold” comment. If you think that passive-agressive behavior is different, fine. I guess in your mind it is.
Why would I check? That would imply I give a shit about you, or your favorite football team. You are correct, though. I did make the assumption that you have a reason to love Nick Mangold. That was a mistake. Clearly, you have an in-depth knowledge of interior lineman play, and in your vast research, Nick Mangold stands out to you. :dubious: My bad.
You are telling us that you understand the nuances of interior lineman play, and that your judgement is better than all but 7 voters who picked Mangold. I am beyond interested in hearing more. But personaliy, I doubt you know anything more than the author and what PFF lays out for you.
I continue to do what? You are misinterpreting my motives, and therefore you have jumped to an incorrect conclusion.
Based on evidence? WTF are you talking about? Did he pull out PFF stats for every position, and show where they finished in the position rankings? I don’t recall that he did that. He also talked about Pouncey’s career, and how getting to the pro bowl means nothing. I thought the all-pro award was for the 2014 season only, not a referendum on a player’s career. That is what the HOF voting is for.
If Pouncey gets into the HOF someday, are you going to be in the audience, waving your printouts from PFF? I hope so. I would hate to see anyone get in that wasn’t deserving.
The author proved nothing. He stated that Pouncey was named All-Pro, but he implied very strongly that he didn’t deserve it. So, why just say that about Pouncey? Did you go through every all-pro winner and check where he finished on your hallowed PFF?
If the author made a similar comment about most or all of the other positions, I wouldn’t have made any comment, because that would be his style. Unless I missed something, it seemed to be a strange departure from the rest of the article.
I think you have me confused with another poster. I personally don’t care about a Steeler being “better” than anyone else. Again, that is something you are projecting to make yourself feel better. If you need that anchor to make yourself feel justified with your position, fine. But it is not me. You have extrapolated a lot based on my comment of “sour grapes.” That makes me a homer? Which part of “if he was a Colt” did you not understand?
You sound like a guy who plays a lot of fantasy football, hangs out on Draft Kings and reads Bleacher Report for his info. They quote PFF all the time, so it must be the gold standard. Why not petition the league and tell them how they should decide who is an all-pro? Your way sounds better. (And, personally, it wouldn’t impact me one way or the other.)
What?
Bullshit. I get it. I just don’t agree with you. Pro Football Focus again?
If the site is so valuable, why not just toss out the voters and go with the stats?
Does PFF, for example, take into account things like 1) who the QB is behind the center, 2) who the opponents are week to week, 3) the quality of the guards and tackles and TE on the line with him? 4) the speed at which the QB gets the ball out of his hand? 5) The receivers, and how fast they get open? 6) how good the running back is? 7) The weather conditions 8) a thousand other variables that would impact a player’s performance?
Football is a team game, and if you don’t have good players around you, your own stats will suffer. If Suh, for example, could be double or triple teamed because the rest of the defense was bad, his sack stats would suffer.
Yes. Please do. And remind us all what your expertise is. Where you played pro ball, or college ball, or even high school ball. I don’t care if you won your fantasy league, big guy.
Don’t come in spewing nonsensical stats from PPF, either… Like “how many sacks” some guy gave up. Because that doesn’t tell me everything. For example, it doesn’t tell me how good the guys next to Mangold or Pouncey were last year, or if they had a number of interchangeable parts on the o-line due to injuries, etc.
You are the only one that I have read in this thread who seems to care. I am not enforcing anything. You made a claim, and can’t back it up because you don’t know what the hell you are talking about. If you want to point to PFF stats, ok. Anyone who wants to refute that can point to the All-Pro vote.
Mangold finished 3rd.
Pouncey finished 1st
Pouncey is better. Proof? He has the All-Pro award!
Q.E.D.
Yeah, it’s as stupid as your “argument”. However, I have no idea where Mangold finished on PFF stats, or even where he lands compared to Pouncey or the Cowboy center. And I don’t care.
Seriously… The more I think about this, the stranger it seems. You are in a Steeler “march to the Super Bowl” thread, arguing about who the best center in the league is? Who gives a shit?
Is there a Packer (or any other team) thread like this one? I don’t know, because I wouldn’t even bother to read it. And yet you are in here whining about “tribalism” and “homerism”.
The problem with you is that you jumped to the conclusion that since I thought the author slammed Pouncey that I was a Steeler “homer”. I would have thought that was an odd comment if he made it about anyone, or if Pouncey played for another team. You think Mangold is the best center, and your “proof” is PRO FOOTBALL FOCUS! Super. Good for you (and apparently, Nick Mangold). Oh, and I forgot… Your knowledge of how a lineman plays. You are an expert, and yet you don’t work for an NFL team. What a waste of knowledge. :dubious:
This is where it ends for me. I am sure you will be responding to this post paragraph by paragraph, but that’s ok. You seem to have a lot of time on your hands.
You need a life, dude. Or an employer who monitors your computer time during work hours.
Again, each and every time your respond to me, you continue to dig the same hole. You seem to think that saying that there is at least one better player in the entire NFL is a slam against the second best. I can’t help you with that. According to you, was I also slamming the Packers’ Corey Linsley, because I didn’t say he was the best? Was I slamming every fucking center in the NFL by daring to say I thought someone else was the best? Once again, you prove my point. That even daring to say a Steeler isn’t the best in the entire NFL is somehow a slam. You’re worse than a teenage girl defending Justin Bieber.
The rest of your post is the typical ad hominems that I have spend too much time paying attention to football, with a few non-sequiturs and rambling thrown in, so I won’t waste my time with you. You’ve more than demonstrated that any discussion with you related in any way to Steeler football is a complete waste of my time. At least I know now how much credence to give your opinion.
Because, in the end, they’re not hired because they’re nice guys, they’re hired because they’re good at their jobs. Don’t get me wrong – I don’t want Vick anymore than you do. And people here know my feelings on Roethlisberger as a person. (And no, that’s not necessarily the rape thing). However, it’s not about what he’s like off the field – it’s how he performs when he’s playing. So I’ll hold my nose and still root for my team, if not necessarily idividual players.
Corey Linsley? I don’t even know who he is. Your entire premise is wrong, and you keep trying to paint me into a corner of your own design.
I know you think it’s the same hole. That’s the problem here. You’ve taken a position, made assumptions about MY motives of why I said “sour grapes” (tribalism, homerism bullshit), and continue to use that invalid assumption to “prove” to yourself that you are correct. Try grasping a new idea: some football fans are NOT as deeply entrenched as you are in a team or player or team colors. You keep saying the same thing over and over. My favorite:
You have read that into my posts because you think you know me. But you don’t. You are clueless, but you can’t admit it now because you hold yourself up out here as some sort of football “expert”.
This has nothing to do with Steeler football. There are many homers out here for most teams, and there is nothing wrong with that. Airman admits he’s a homer (and hell, he’s started this thread for 13 years, so that isn’t a reach). But not every Steeler fan (or football fan or ANY sports fan) is the same. You want to lump everyone together? Fine. But some of us don’t take it as seriously as others, and some of us don’t have a blind loyalty to their favorite team. You seem to think all fans are the same, and they are all rabid defenders of their team’s players and colors. My comment was made in a Steeler thread, so I must be a “homer!” I only saw the comment because I was reading the thread and saw the link to the All-Pro article. I didn’t even know Pouncey WAS the All-Pro from last season (or anyone else for that matter). If Nick Mangold would have been named All-Pro, my reaction would have been the same. “Huh, I didn’t know that.” If the author wrote thst exact same paragraph about Mangold, I would have thought it just as strange. You can’t seem to grasp that.
You won’t waste your time with me because you don’t know jack shit about interior line play, and you know it. And I don’t care what you think of my opinion. Why would I? You sound as intensely insane as any other “homer” you deride out here, because you are just as convinced as they are. You have enough time in your work day to read a “Steeler-centric” thread, and throw a comment in about how the Steeler center isn’t the best in the league. That seems normal to you?
The equivalent would be me going into a “Packers March” thread, you saying the loss of Jordy Nelson would be a big loss because he’s the best WR in the league, and me coming into the thread saying “you misspelled Odell Beckam”. Seriously, who gives a shit? A difference between us is that I wouldn’t even read the Packer thread, because I don’t care about the Packers, or any other team in the NFL other than the Steelers. But my interest in the Steelers is not nearly as deep as maybe Airman’s, or ElvisL1ves’ in the Pats or even yours with the Packers. I just don’t care like you.
And unlike you, I am not trying to impress strangers on a message board with my “vast knowledge” of who the best center in the NFL is. Whether or not you read my opinions, dismiss them, or skip them completely is irrelevant to me. Do you actually think I would sit here and say to myself "I sure hope Hamlet reads my post and agrees with me! :dubious: That’s quite the ego you have there.
I know you are a busy guy, and I am all tingly knowing you spend the time helping all of us. I am sure you have another fantasy football draft to prepare for, and I’m sure there are a number of NFL teams vying for your deep knowledge of football to help them fill their roster gaps, whether they be on the o-line or anywhere else. You have meetings to prepare for! So thanks for the time.
Don’t worry. I am sure you will need the last word on this to “set the record straight” and “prove your point.” So have at it. I won’t reply to you about this particular subject again. I know what I meant and I stand by what I said. If you actually believe that I think you (or anyone else) can’t believe a Steeler isn’t the best in the league at his position, I am not going to be able to change your mind. You are incapable of admitting that you are wrong or made a mistake.
I don’t doubt that in the least.
What amuses me is I told you who he was in that very sentence. Scroll up and look. It says “the Packers’ Corey Linsley”. Now, a vast majority of people, after reading " the Packers Corey Linsley" would be able to conclude that Corey Linsley was the center for the Packers". Not you, though. You don’t know who he is, even after being told it.
I think that happens because you don’t actually read or can’t comprehend what I say. You just want an argument. You feel bad about me being right in pointing out your leaping to conclusions about the author of the piece, and about me, and now you’re just flinging insults like a diarrhetic monkey. Good Luck with that. If you ever want to discuss, oh I don’t know, actual football, let me know.