“The weekend is no go”. They set a date. He balked. Gave no further suggestion except a vauge “Maybe after Christmas”.
Now, according to KRAMER. Mr. Carey insisted that he could be tesed “at any time”.
[QUOTE]
For the record, I read Mr. Carey’s “the wekend is a no go” as a refusal of a first date. However, what I failed to see was any suggestion for alternative date from him. Again, this man put them through a lot, and then balked. There is no requirement that ‘Randi & Co.’ have limitless patience with this guy.
Look Peter, you brought this guy up and one major factor in this is the man’s impatience and taunting. KRAMER makes that quite clear.
Mr. Carey said nothing about wanting to win with only 2 out of 5. This is a complete invention on your part.
I gues I made a mistake. The protocol was worked out with the applicant but then he refused to confirm it. This applicant seemed to do quite a bit of foot dragging and excuse making all along the line. At one point he said that he had not replied to an email sent by the Irish skeptics because they did not provide him with an email address. I find it hard to believe that anyone but a complete neophyte does not know how to reply to an email.
His demand that JREF supply the receiver was absurd. He was just trying to give himself an excuse if he failed the test. If the receiver was supplied by JREF then how could the person be trusted to honestly write down any received messages? he wanted JREF to taint the procedure. The only way for the test to be fair to both parties was for Mr. Carey to provide his own “reciever” and thuis eliminate any possibility of deliberate tanking by a JREF stooge. Collusion would not be a concern because any receiver brought in by the applicant would have no way of knowing the sentences beforehand.
Where does this information come from?
Based on the information provided by the JREF, he had no part in working out the protocol. He was simply told the protiocol that Randi and the Irish skeptics had worked out togrther. He was ordered to accept within 1 day or have his claim closed.
Where does it say he was allowed to participate in working out the protocol?
Yeah? I’ve received plenty of email with crap in the return address. Hitting reply just bounces back. Usually, it’s done by spammers to prevent replies. Quite often it’s done accidently by normal people who expect a reply, then get upset if they don’t get one.
Or maybe he was trying to avoid Randi’s accusation of cheating if he succeeded.
How could he cheat by bringing his own receiver? A receiver provided by JREF would automatically invalidate the test. How could JREF possibly agree to a condition that would invalidate the test?
Peter, you keep repeating he had “one day to accept the challenge” when we have documented evidence that
A) He had FOUR days, not one, and
B) He claimed, repeatedly, that he was ready for testing “anytime,” and
C) He offered no alternative dates, and in fact has done absolutely nothing to help make the test happen.
Now you’re claiming Randi asking him to provide a receiver was unreasonable, despite the stupefyingly obvious fact that THE ONLY WAY THE TEST CAN BE RUN FAIRLY IS FOR CAREY TO PROVIDE THE RECEIVER.
You’re going to just accuse Randi of cheating no matter what, even if it means you have to claim things that are not true. We get it; you hate him.
So what we have here, at worst, is a case of the Randi organization being less than totally patient with a guy who was trying his best to complicate matters. What does this prove, exactly?
I’d be more convinced it was a failing if you were able to show that there was something. Given the singular lack of any convincing evidence of the paranormal, it seems less like a major failing and more an understandable position shaped by evidence.
My opinion of the JREF, and Kramer in particular, is hardening. Kramer specifically doesn’t got what it takes to do his job efficiently. He’s a hothead, and he gives people like Peter far, far too much ammunition by the immature and ultracombative approach he takes.
There is no real evidence that JREF are much into negotiating protocols. Supporters of the JREF would do well to go over to the JREF boards and read through the challenges that have been written up by Kramer, and you will see that usually JREF just propose a protocol and that’s that.
The protocol will usually be entirely fair, as far as it goes. JREF will not muck about much with indulging weirdass requirements however.
Complaints from challengers that proposed protocols are unfair are rare. Actually, I can’t think of any examples that have any real substance to them.
Usually, the supposed paranormal power will be something that the JREF has seen before, I guess. I think this tends to lead to Randi/Kramer already having a testing method in mind, and they just propose that and then see little or no need to change anything to accommodate the wishes of a particular claimant.
As I’ve said, I’ve never seen an example of this being a real problem. However, it does lead to much ill will because Kramer in particular is arrogant and abrupt. As a challenger, questioning anything or suggesting any changes can quickly lead to Kramer misinterpreting your motives, assuming you are trying “put one over him” and so on. And Kramer will get defensive and start abusing you very quickly if you muck about.
The Carey thing is a good example. One doesn’t really know the full exchange. I see precious little evidence that Carey wasn’t in agreement with the protocol, or that he didn’t agree the date prior to then pulling out. Certainly, despite him being entirely free to post whatever he wanted to on the JREF forum, he didn’t suggest that he disagreed with the proposed protocol in any substantial way, and he didn’t seem over keen on getting right down to it and setting dates and committing to them.
I think he was/is a silly bint, who stuffed Kramer and the Dublin skeptics round till they got jack of him. Kramer as usual fanned the flames, and did a good job of showing why he doesn’t have the very qualities that his job demands.
I don’t see any fundamental problems with the challenge based on that episode. I do see evidence of the fairly unprofessional way the challenge is run.
Having not read that particular exchange, Princh, I have to agree that I wonder why the JREF don’t simply publicise the general form of the testing regime that would be required to win the challenge: surely every supposed ability could be cast in terms of a 10% probability of success, such that a day’s worth of multiple tests would almost certainly decide the matter once and for all in terms of statistical significance? Applicants who claimed, for example, that they could supernaturally call a coin toss correctly 50.0001% of the time could thus be told that they must fund the necessary months/years of testing themselves, or else sod off.
Then again, perhaps that would be to invite absurdly picayune pedantry regarding the exact words used therein, such that someone might claim success based on semantics strained way past breaking point. I still think it would allow prospective applicants to know where they stand.
Actually, I don’t believe this to be the case; Randi has gone on record as saying that he would dearly love to find some hard evidence of paranormal activity, simply because that would be an incredibly exciting discovery, well worth spending a million dollars to find. Do you suppose he is lying when he says this?