Oh crapme and numbers and military organization again.
I’m a bigger picture person. You supply me numbers. (Sheesh keeping me all honest and stuff instead of letting me talk outta my butt.)
Palve and company would fit right in with these chuckleheads. Oh yeah, I feel your “pain”. :rolleyes:
CRorex, someone must’ve given you some bad information on chemical weapons. They’re not a slight annoyance, they’re a highly unpleasant and serious threat if the enemy can deliver them (i.e., if you’re within artillery range).
S. Norman
Well, you know the drill: Federal Money comes with Strings Attached.
While not everyone learns the lesson as well as I did, I certainly didnt’ recieve any special training, which is part of what makes the military a meritocracy. If you put much into it, you recieve much out of it.
The miltary does things to train people that few, if any, unis can achieve: Specifically, put you in the role at the same time as you’re learning the job. The Military expects results, and has the authority and responsibility to reward those results, as well as to sanction the lack of results (and I’m not just talking about getting dead becasue you were too dumb to duck). It brings the lesson home in a way that a university can’t match. Frankly, had I wished, and had it been important to me, I could’ve finished my degree while in the service. Former officers have levels of success that astounds even me, what with having a degree, and having the military training. Show me an unsuccessful former officer, and I’ll show you someone who’d best be looking in the mirror mighty hard.
**
That sounds pretty cool. Where I grew up things like tanks, helicopters, and other military vehicles were a fairly common sight. But for those people who don’t get to see things on a daily basis I can imagine it would be a neat experience. Just like it was neat when the fire department brought their truck and showed us their equipment.
**
I hate how they offer some additional ideas for what people can do after graduation. Shame on them for presenting some of the benefits of military life such as health care, job raining, college money, and maybe even a career. Just to let you know everything you’ve mentioned were recruitement tactics I saw put into use in Plano, Texas. And Plano is hardly a ghetto.
It doesn’t sound off to me. My sister went from waiting tables to becoming an air traffic controller after she joined the Navy. She had more authority and responsibility then most others her age.
Marc
Of course, the universities would argue their job is not to teach you a specific task but to round you out as an individual. There is no real substitute for experience, though; you’ll get no argument on that. Most professors I knew recognized this and encouraged students to find work (internships, etc.) in their fields while attending classes. It could be argued that this level of freedom encourages more of a sense of responsibility, as you are required to manage your own development and seek help by yourself. (Yea, there’s teamwork on occasion, and it’s valuable, but there’s always that limit to how much you can depend on others.) IMHO, the university is closer to real (that is, civilian U.S.) world than the military is–responsibility is implied and expected, not overtly disciplined except in extremes.
Eh. Show me an unsuccessful anybody and I’ll show you someone who should probably be looking in the mirror.
I guess that sense of duty you talk about was simply ingrained in me as I was growing up; never felt the need to have a drill sergeant yell at me–I already had one father, thank you very much. 
MrBlue,
This thread is not about whether college or military service is correct for every person. This obviously depends on the person and the situation. Not everyone desires or should go to college. Military service can be a godsend for many different types of people.
What we are talking about why our youth Palve here is so severely misguided. This person is obviously in need of severe help intellectually, socially, and emotionally. I think that it is probably too late to help Palve but if anyone wants to try to Straighten Palve out, I wish them luck.
In my experience, the military does it faster and better (and yes, I was working in the civilian world befor going Navy). Please understand that your “job” in the military isn’t even close to the only thing you do. You’re held accountable for, and given training in, a myriad of tasks & responisbilities. Especially NCOs and officers, the kinds of things thrown your way are close to unbelievable, but you’re expected to handle them, and if you can’t, there’s someone near by who can, and can show you how.
Not in my IRL experience. Not that colleges and universities don’t do a decent job, but it’s that it happens faster and more completely in uniform. Also, understand that most tasks in the military are handled on a “Go do this, that, and the other. Come tell me when you run out of things to do” basis. It’s up to the individual to see to it that the tasks are accomplished (which is why so many NCOs have a “can do” attitude).
No doubt about this, you’re right, which is why I’m kicking ass, career-wise.
Not all fathers are created equal. 
Palve started the thread and then hasn’t posted again. Doesn’t anyone else smell “red herring” on this thread?
I hope you are write but I do not believe you are. Our friend Palve has kept a remarkably consistent message of Marxism and disdain for the US throughtout different threads. Poor Palve, so young, so much potential, and so fucked in the head.
Palve, if your biggest problem is the table in the hallway to lunch, then you should be thrilled. If it is a big deal for you, go to the principal and ask them if they would move it somewhere which is a little bit more out of the way.
The reason the military recruiters come in and hand out pamphlets and other information is the same reason that any other organization/college comes into the schools; to get information out to the students so they can make the right choices after college. You are right, it is a BIG decision. That is why they give you their card and tell you to go down to the recruiting station.
A friend of mine who graduated last year decided to join the Army. She talked to the recruiter at the school, talked to her teachers, went to the recruiter and then after signing up saying that she wanted to be in the Army, she had to take tests. It was a long process, and even after the tests and everything were finished, she still had time to back out. IIRC, she was still able to back out the day before she was leaving for boot camp(shes in the army now btw).The people that you see behind the table aren’t going to ship you out to bootcamp just by you walking up and talking to them. All they are there for is to sell an idea.
Well, mileages vary… that’s all I’m saying. I appreciate your perspective.
My sincerest apologies if I’ve triggered the recollection of bad memories…
Agreed, with reservations. But if you’re ticked about the first hijack, I’ll save those.
Oh I don’t know… perhaps he finds this little side debate useful. However, for the sake of those lurking at home, I’ll gladly cease and desist.
Do you think the Army would like to give it a shot?
:d&r:
[QUOTEPoor Palve, so young, so much potential, and so fucked in the head. **[/QUOTE]
I think you may be correct, but I just can’t figure out what “fucked in the head” smells like. Burned broccoli? Acid etched pencil eraser?
Just another example that we have enemies from within…
Umm few things I want to point out here.
- We have troops in germany. If we really need em we phone up the leader of germany and say, “umm we really need these guys, we’ll bring em back later.”
Its called a treaty, its not something we HAVE to do. And lets face it many countries have better relationships with each other some family members.
secondly, the staffing problems is not simply a political/civialian problem.
Look at the amount of money being spent on the latest most high tech weapons system out there. You could funnel 1 billion dollars away from weapons development and use the to hire a hell of a lot of soldiers. And 1 billion dollars isn’t shit in the world of high tech weapons. Take the next generation fighter-bomber development. Total costs have been admitted to be at least TWICE the contract value.
And why exactly do we need some of these weapons system? It doesn’t look like there are any enemies to fight with anywhere near the same technological edge that we have. If they come close and they’re willing to fight they’ll also have to fight the rest of the industrialized world. Show me one country that has the military might to take on the US, France, England, Germany, Turkey, and the rest of NATO.
Does anyone know the exact numbers of military personel we can draw upon? I know barely any of the reservers have been called up. (we still have the inactive reserves and lots of reserverists left)
At the age of 22, I was placed at the controls of a nuclear reactor worth half a billion dollars (US) in today’s money. Pretty responsible stuff. You won’t see many other jobs where you get that much trust (and the training that generates the trust) After I left the service, I started with a consulting firm. I’ve never completed a degree. I hold no certifications. I out-earn everyone with my time in the company, despite most of them being MBAs. Why? Maybe because I learned a bit more that just where the SCRAM Breakers were located, or how to point a rifle. I learned Self Discipline, Responsibility, Accountability, and Leadership. I learned how to deal with people you couldn’t afford to offend. I learned how to think on the fly, and how to accept criticism. I learned how to accept responsibility, and how to give it to others. I learned how to be a team player, and when to go it alone. I learned the importance of taking care of your subordinates and your boss.
[/quote]
On the downside they don’t teach correct grammar.
Yes, too bad people like Shagnasty don’t realise that they are the enemies of everything America stands for.
If I didn’t know better (and I dang sure don’t), this is the 3rd or 4th thread from Palve in the last couple of days that got opened and we have yet to see a rebuttal from the OP. Dare I write, DNFTT?
I prefer to believe that he doesn’t know his Marxism well enough to argue beyond the level of sloganeering, which makes him an idiot to appear in a forum like this, where it all comes out in the wash.
It’s Warhammer 40,000 nimrod! And I would be awesome on the battlefield if I could only get a heavy boltgun…
Obviously smiling and politely saying “Excuse me please” while walking through the crowd is more of an inconvenience that walking through the blizzard, both ways uphill, in July, for a crust of school bread. That or you are just too stupid to have thought about that method.
I think the rest of the OP was covered quite well by everyone else.