I certainly can’t deny the power of your imagination.
Daniel
They were positioned so we couldn’t see their genitals (Eve’s hair covered her nipples), but yes there was rear nudity.
I thought that in this case they had permission (in the form of permission slips). Did I misunderstand?
Some people feel nudity is inappropriate around fifth-grade children. Might lead to dancing or something; fine, whatever. But the point here is that including nude art in the category “inappropriately underclothed” is unusual enough that the burden is on the parents to exclude Sensitive Sam from art museums, not on the teacher from avoiding art museums to cater to Sensitive Sam. And they certainly had ample opportunity: it wasn’t a surprise field trip, it wasn’t a new museum, and as everyone else has said, you’d have to be unusually ignorant of art to assume that it was boobie- and weenie-free.
Imagination? Frisco TX is real. This teacher is unemployed and thinking about suing. The principal is still working. And this was “much ado about nothing;” whereas, you’ve described a multitude of art that was far more graphic and numerous that some more well supervised students have expressly not seen. Doesn’t take much of an imagination to believe that there could be trouble in the future.
I don’t know how you think this supports your point.
One parent out of thousands complained. Period. It doesn’t matter if the thousands of kids were in the same class or in different classes. That’s still ONE OUT OF THOUSANDS OF PARENTS who thought there was something wrong.
So how, in your opinion, would it being groups from different classes make this one person the one showing the prevailing attitude in the area, or reasonable?
You clearly have trouble distinguishing between your imagination and reality. For example, you imagine that I’m disputing some of the facts in the second and third sentence of your post; I am not. I am disputing the ethics of the principal, and suggesting that the teacher has a very good case to sue. I am suggesting that this case is extremely rare, given the reality of my experience and the experience of the local art museum docent. I am suggesting that this case is so rare precisely because it is so stupid. I am suggesting that people aren’t dumb if they don’t predict freak cases will be brought against them by stupid freaks.
Daniel
I’m wondering what UB’s take would be on the opne single atheist parent objecting to the Pledge of Alliegance? surely since one could easily forsee that mentioning God (or even god) in front of the shy atheist child would offend the sensibilities of the atheist parent, certainly they’d support the firing of any teacher who dared to have the pledge displayed in the classroom. Since, in this case one single fucking complaint from one child’s parent(s) resulted in the disciplinary action.
This hit the local news last week, and even the fairly conservative Dallas Morning News wrote an editorial condemning the Frisco school board for being totally moronic about the situation.
Well, both the Houston and Dallas dailies have called Frisco to task on this.
What gets me about this is not that some retarded parent when all freakazoid about the nudity thing. There’s insane unthinking parents everywhere in the country. What really bothers me is that the Frisco school board so totally caved in.
It wasn’t a school trip to a porn shop, you fucking morons, it was the Dallas Museum of Art! Children from school districts from all over North Texas make field trips to this place all the goddamned time!
Arrrrggggg!!!
I disagree. I seriously doubt if there was local school field trip to an art museum that any of parents would assume that nude art would be their. Now that might unsettle the average cool, urbane, hip Dopester, but I truly believe that would be the belief of most people where I live, especially if the trip was to be undertaken by 5th graders. Landscapes, farming, oil field, and ranching scenes, potraits, sculptures cowboys or roughnecks, pioneers, etc. The most interesting public art displays, locally, would be some excellent life size sculptures in Artesia, NM of the floor of a drilling rig with its driller and crew along with other scenes typical of the area’s history. There is an art gallery nearby, I believe. I’ll have to stop there one and see if there is any nude work.
Well, yes, but you’re unusually ignorant of art.
Daniel
Predictions: I think that she won’t teach in Frisco again. She will get an out of court settlement of at most, a years salary. The principal will stay in place. And that further field trips in Frisco will probably not indlude nude art. And she’ll know better next time, if there is a next time.
Stop by a public museum of general art and find out.
Daniel
I don’t believe so. I do believe that some here are ignorant about what would be acceptable art for fith graders and what would be expected in an art museum visit by fifth graders by many parents. What you describe in your museum, especially the giant photo of the pubic area, is clearly not appropriate for a fifth grade class.
Says you–not says people who know about art, or the many, many school groups who visit the museum every year. Your opinion is clearly a minority, one of the Whiny Minority.
Daniel
As Daniel says, you do seem to be fairly ignorant on the subject of art museums; you really shouldn’t go making pronouncements about how they operate. I am by no means an art expert, but I do enjoy visiting art museums and have visited a great many of them on three continents and you will find nudity to be quite common. Even in an art museum for a small Catholic college in Oklahoma.
Do that. But understand that art museums often rotate their collection. If you don’t see any nudity today, that doesn’t mean they have never shown any.
Correct me if I am wrong Unregistered Bull, but didn’t you think that an Austin teacher should have gotten fired for nude pictures that were completely unrelated to her teaching?
Why does nudity threaten you so much? What potential long term problems do you foresee for the kids who have been exposed to this obvious crime against humanity?
Keep in mind he’s not saying he’ll visit an art museum; he’s going to visit a gallery. Very different animal.
Daniel
Unregistered Bull, I think you’re failing to discern the difference between “Art Museum” and other public / semi-public displays of art.
An art gallery is not the same as an art museum. Even though both display art, there are distinctions in size, range of the collections, and often in function (some galleries exist primarily to sell art).
Any large urban art museum in the Western world will have something nude, somewhere, if only a nude male torso.
Now, wait just a minute. Unregistered Bull seems to be saying that parents in Frisko, TX might indeed be ignorant enough of art to not know that their 10 year old child might see boobies and weenies in an art exhibit. This I can agree with.
I don’t agree with the witchhunt that has been conducted for the teacher when there were two levels above her that agreed to this trip - the principal and the parents. As far as I’m concerned, her ass was as covered as it could have been, and the principal hanging her out to dry is very low, and after suing her and getting my job back, I would quit and go work for someone who I could trust to not stab me in the back.
Unregistered bull: Full of unregistered shit.