Every now and then a book is published that causes adherents of a religion to seriously question their religion. Bertrand Russell’s Why I Am Not a Christian is one such for Christianity, from what I have heard.
An equivalent book for Islam is Ibn Warraq’s Why I Am Not a Muslim.
A devastating critique of the history, theology, and facts about Islam, in my opinion.
Has anyone else read this? Does anyone think another book is more devastating?
WRS
I hear that to a lot of Christians the book by Albert Schweitzer "The Quest of the Historical Jesus"had a similar effect. It was a very respectful book, but it is looking into the historical sources and backgrounds of the Bible, and that alone was a large eyeopener to many Christians. The book made an substantial impact becuase it was very hard to discredit the author. Albert Schweitzer was a famous philantropist, Nobel-prize winner, who founded many hospitals in Africa, and is considered by Christians tas a near-saint.
But why limit it to religion?
When I was in my last year of college, studying psychology, I read a book by a Dutch critical philosopher, Hans Achterhuis, with the title (translated to English) “the market of wellbeing and happiness”.
It totally confirmed my own doubts about my field I had at the time… How the social studies, while trying to help, defined, created or hid problems and created new standards inadvertently. How it hid its inefficiency under a blanket of jargon. That social studies made a pitiful (at least is was still pitiful in the seventies) claim to being hard science when in fact, psychology was at best an healing art, psychopharmacology was still in its infancy, and sociology has since been shown to be mostly useless. The most promising parts of sociology have found better living quarters in other area’s of science, like law and economics.
After reading, I remember being extremely cynical for a few months, and annoyingly zealous in wanting all my friends and fellow-students to read the book as well.
Then I quieted down and slowly integrated it to my world view. 
Tsk, tsk. Don’t you know Islam is a religion of peace and tolerance? Or at least that’s what all the sheep around here keep bleating …
Now look what you’ve gone and done Sauron. I took a stroll to the library a moment ago to pick up the Bertrand Russel book. Didn’t have it, so I grabbed a compilation and went and pulled up a seat in the sun (very new, very nice library). Most seats were taken as the area was in a huge pool of sunlight, except for a couple. I pulled one up and this guy starts saying “Why won’t people leave me alone? I just want some peace blah blah”. I sat down and turned and stared at him. He says what ya looking at me like that for. I replied I’ll sit where I choose. The conversation rapidly descended and he finishes with a flourish : “You are the Devil. God is my judge.” I just smiled and said “I’m sure he is”. He took off and I continued reading. Fortuitously the religious books were alongside the philosophy section so I decided to browse a bit more when I saw him lying on the floor next to the religious texts. He left soon after.
Must thank you for a most amusing event. made my day.
Christianity is even more so. The early Christians thought this world wasn’t very important at all. Yet Christians have been involved in lots of wars. I dunno it is valid to blame a faith on the acts of some sinful followers.
Bizarre! I have it right here next to me. I read it a year ago, and figured I would get started on it in a few hours. My imperfect recollection of it is pretty much the reason I started Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. A question about Islam v. Christianity.
I haven’t started reading it yet, but if you have the paperback copy, you can ask about a section or page number, and ask me my opinion. (Disclaimer: If you are looking for a debate on behalf of Islam, I am not the best candidate. I pretty much agree with the view that a used camel salesman decided to start a religion one day, because he felt like it.)
I’ve read the book. In fact, I’ve read it a few times. I’d be very interested to see a rebuttal by a Muslim. Ibn Warraq (evidently a no de plume) has also edited a few books on the history of the Koran and Islam.
I’ve read quite a bit about Islam, but nothing that can tell me how trustworthy Warraq is. In one of the parts where I have read elsewhere (and it’s more about anthropology than about Islam), I think he is not completely accurate – his description of anthropologist Martin Harris; theory about Muslim dietary laws misrepresents and oversimplifies Harris. How can I jusge the rest of the book?
In some other sections, I have to ask how representative the facts are. When he describes the humiliating ceremony attached to the jizrah, he makes it seem that this is the way it is inevitably followed throughout the Muslim world, throughout history. I doubt that this was the case. You could make an equally damning indictment of Christianity the same way.
For me, the chief value of this book and others like it is that it brings up issues that the supporters of the religion are unwilling to raise, and that neutral nonbelieving historians are usually too polite to bring up.
Another book I’ve come across is Islam Revealed: A Christan Arab’s View of Islam http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0785264647/qid=1113914678/sr=8-11/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i9_xgl14/102-8173469-3756109?v=glance&s=books&n=507846
And, again, I’d like to see a Muslim rebuttal, because I lack the knowledge myself. In particular, for the case of this book, I’d like to know if Shorrosh’s lengthy translation of the phrase normally rendered “peace be upon him” is at all correct. If it is, then it raises all sorts of questions (starting with why this lengthy phrase has been so abbreviated). If not, it casts grave doubts about Shorrosh’s veracity.
If you type in “Islam Unveiled” or similar words you’ll find several entries at Amazon.com which I haven’t come across before.
If you’ve got a problem with the Christians, take it up with a Christian. I’m not one.
Every major religion (and political power, and nation, and…) claims to be one of peace and tolerance. So such a claim is automatically useless anyway. “Actions speak louder than words,” and all that.
For the benefit of those who haven’t read the book, could you cite some examples of things you consider devastating?
Regards,
Shodan
Typing it in manually? Sure.
From the first sentence of the preface:
“I was born into a Muslim family and grew up in a country that now describes itself as an Islamic republic.”
Very prudent of him.
By itself, not very devastating.
Oh, it’s bristling with subtle tragedy.
Like a haiku about clowns.
Is this what you do all day long, Shodan? Wander around the SDMB demanding cites? If you’ve got a problem with the book–for that matter, if you’ve got any kind of point to make at all–why not just tell us what it is?
Or…read it. 
(insignificant note)
100th Post. Wheeeeee!
I haven’t read the book, as I mentioned. That’s why I asked for a description of some of the points. That way we could have a, you know, “Great Debate”.
Instead, I get someone who interprets “could you mention some of the points” as “type it in manually”. And the above. :rolleyes:
Did you find something in the book you would like to debate? If so, please trot it out. If not, perhaps you could go start a Pit thread objecting to my cruel and objectionable attempts to find a real debate topic here.
Regards,
Shodan
For those who just don’t get it, I opened the book to the first page, hoping to see something devastating to the claims of Islam, and I was happily surprised to see it. So much of the book depends to things referenced earlier in the same book, so quoting from the section on conclusion would help much.
Shodan, I can study catholic theology all I like, and show how it is not internally consistent. However, it would not have nearly as much impact or legitimacy as if I was born into the religion, as is the case of the author of this book. That is what I meant by typing out those exact words.
Now, no insult meant to the OPer, but I think this thread would go better in Cafe Society, since the author seems to be looking for debate over the meaning of a book, most of whom are likely to be like-minded. By the way, in my eyes, this discussion could go in that direction, or it could go in more of a “Ask the guys who read this book” direction. However, if you actually want to discuss the issues involved in the book, Shodan, buy your own copy. Personally, I am not going to waste my time typing up a summery.
P.S. mr bus guy, congrats! 
I’m a little suspicious about the books claimed here to be “devastating” to their religion. Did Why I Am Not a Christian by Bertrand Russell really convince that many people? I know of few people who consider Russell to be an important effect on their philosophical life. I think Why I Am Not a Christian was mostly read for confirmation by people who had already decided not to be a Christian. As I understand it, The Quest for the Historical Jesus is an important book, but it’s not about convincing anyone of the truth or falsity of Christianity. It’s a study of the so-called Historical Lives of Jesus during the nineteenth century. (These Historical Lives of Jesus still continue to be written till this day, so it still has some relevance.) A Historical Life of Jesus was the sort of book written by someone who already had doubts about the faith he had grown up on. It was an attempt to write a “historical” version of Jesus’s life that got past all the “mythology” from the Bible. The problem is that it’s easy when creating such a book to unconsciously rewrite Jesus’s life to include some philosophical beliefs that you’ve already decided on anyway. The Historical Lives of Jesus that are criticized in The Quest for the Historical Jesus were mostly written by people who were already edging away from their Christian faith and were either no longer particularly orthodox Christians but still wanted to call themselves Christian or were no longer calling themselves Christian but still wanted to say that they believed in “Jesus’s real teachings.”
As I thought, you haven’t got any kind of point to make. Come back when you actually have one, okay?