The most fucked-up movie ostensibly aimed at children

…Wow…just wow…SOMEONE clearly paid no attention to the film whatsoever. I saw this movie just last night, so let me clear a lot of things up with you:

The only bits you actually got right were the “jilted by a skirt” being in a dance number, the kid being used by Carface, and Charlie escaping from Heaven.

First off: Charlie DID NOT betray Carface, it was the other way around - Carface convinced Charlie to give up his share of the gambling business, got him drunk during a goodbye party, and had him RUN OVER in the docks and forced into the lake/river/ocean by a driverless car. You never actually see him get hit. He WAS NOT killed in a drive by shooting. Although there IS a scene where he’s shot at in a drive-by rigged by Carface later in the movie, he manages to come out of it unscathed and nobody gets hurt.

Second: Anabelle the archangel whippet never gave off a “sleazy” vibe. I have no idea where in the world you got that idea from.

Third: The ONLY mob slang used is when Carface is referring to his plans to kill Charlie by using phrases as “Friends need to be taken care of bussiness-like” and “give him his surprise” and they aren’t even that hard to decipher. The rest of the film is used in plain, clear, and simple English…except for the “jilted by a skirt” thing. I’m 21 and never heard that phrase before and had no idea what that meant myself.

Four: Charlie ONLY DIES TWICE: once in the beginning and again at the end of the film, and both times he winds up in Heaven. The Hell scene you remember is only a nightmare he had.

Five: Charlie DID NOT KILL ANYONE! Carface was chased down and eaten OFF SCREEN - as in we can not see or hear him when this happened - by a gator that befriended Charlie earlier in the film. (The gator ate Carface of his own free will. Charlie did not coax him to do this in any way).

Six: Ann-Marie WAS NOT A SUBPLOT!!! She was VERY CRUCIAL to the story - perhaps even the central focus of it despite not being the protagonist.

Seven: While there is a gator in drag with a musical number, Itchy was NEVER INVOLVED with this scene.

And finally: Despite the death, alcohol use, gambling, and potentially frightening nightmare scene, there’s nothing wrong with this film. The moral choice Charlie has near the end teaches us that one good moral can go a long way for our own fate, and Ann-Marie has her own stance with what is right and wrong and either scolds Charlie for stealing and lying to her or reacts all heartbroken when he betrays the friendship they had. She frequently forgives him and gives him second chances however, which is another life lesson we could all learn, especially at an early age. And the movie still has it’s cute and humorous moments for the kids to keep them entertained. And sure, children are impressionable, but they’re not morons; they know when they shouldn’t copy everything they see on TV and they’re perfectly capable of understand the moral lessons the story tells. You, apparently, weren’t one of these children if all you got from it was a blur of terror and confusion. Or perhaps you were and simply forgot about what this movie was trying to tell you over time.

Quite honestly, I find it sad that animated films simply aren’t made like this anymore. Everything’s all bright and colorful, squash-and-stretch, and censored now. There’s no real life lessons you can’t learn by simply having friends and the only sad moments are when friendships end and couples break up. There isn’t any dark realism, well thought-out plots, genuine tragedies, and truly touching goodbye scenes anymore.

Oh look another old zombie thread.

max7345 any debate was long over for a number of years.

Sleazy? He said seductive…

To paraphrase a commentator of Mad Magazine: Often, the jokes would go over my head, but that just made me raise my head a little higher.

I think there’s a damaging trend in this country to “protect” children from things that actually help them become adults.

My eyes doth also circle.

Ah, what the heck, let’s revive it.

My candidate is all Japanese anime starting with Akira. There’s a running joke that the way you can tell any movie or cartoon is Japanese or not is if somebody gets raped in the first 30 minutes. I watched Ninja Scroll in my 20’s, and I was still scarred by it.

All you zombies go to heaven.

I realized a couple of days ago that Charlie and the Chocolate Factory is just a kiddie version of the Saw franchise.

I kind of took that part as more of a sideways “Harrison Bergeron” idea- instead of handicapping everyone, Syndrome would augment everyone.

In the end, the results are the same.

By the time I saw All Dogs Go To Heaven (love this movie!) around age 11: I had dealt with the stillbirth of my brother and the awful effect that had on my whole family for years, the suicide of my aunt, been forced to give up all my pets who were hugely emotionally important to me, been emotionally and physically abused by my mom for a long time (and neglected in many ways by both parents), dearly wished my parents would get divorced so I could live in peace with my father, escaped my unhappiness with home life and school by reading thousands of novels (many of them adult novels that dealt with serious/disturbing subject matter), was grappling with my religious faith and that of my family (right on the cusp of deciding I was an atheist), and was intensely curious about sex and adult relationships and seeking out more information about them, even though I had been given plenty of the hard facts already. I’m sure plenty of things still went ‘over my head’ at that age but I understood plenty and thought about life, mortality, morality, heaven, hell (those two especially at that age!), abuse, sex, and human relationships a hell of a lot. This is why my favorite childhood movies are all ‘dark’ and deal with these concepts. They were extremely appropriate for me.

The attempted rape scene in Beethoven’s 2nd (WTF) kept me up at night for a while, though. I think it was my first exposure to rape outside of books, and it shook me.

Or maybe Jigsaw is a grown up version of Charlie after 30 years of being raised by Wonka? :smiley:

My understanding of anime in general is that it’s like all movies here: there are some that are clearly for kids, and some that are clearly not. In Japan, just because a film or TV series is animated doesn’t mean it’s for kids.

Paprika, for example, was rated R here in the states, and I don’t really have any reason to believe that it was aimed at children in Japan.

I always enjoyed imagining how many parents dropped off their 10-year-olds to watch A Boy and His Dog, and then had themselves some very bewildered explaining to be done…

Re: The Incredibles: I sometimes think people read into things too much. Not to say propaganda films aren’t possible, but come on. It was a fun film. If it makes the kids old enough to extemporize about it think a little bit, even better.
I’m trying to remember what disturbed me about James and the Giant Peach when I was in grade school, but it rather freaked me out, even with just the teacher reading it. I wonder if the film was any different.

Let’s see:
-It starts with his parents being trampled to death by a stray rhinoceros.
-His aunts who care for him are horrifically abusive.
-A strange man shows up with glowing green drugs that end up growing the peach.
-The peach rolls over his abusive aunts and kills them.
-The peach is occupied by giant sentient arthropods and worms, who discuss eating James at first.
-The sentient worm is nearly eaten by swarms of seagulls as part of a deliberate plan to save everyone from certain death.

What’s not to traumatize?

Come to think of it, you could make a pretty good horror movie based on the idea of an abused kid finding an alien vessel piloted by giant bug-creatures, befriending them, and embarking on a voyage of vengeance.

[QUOTE=Left Hand of Dorkness]
I realized a couple of days ago that Charlie and the Chocolate Factory is just a kiddie version of the Saw franchise.
[/QUOTE]

Actually, I think it’s closer to a kiddie version of Se7en (which Jigsaw ripped off anyway). In fact, Kevin Spacey was even in the running to play Wonka (although I suspect that was a rumor planted by someone who was aware of the similarities in theme between the stories).

Interesting, especially since I’ve seen Se7en and not Saw. My impression is that in Saw, the bad guy sets up traps in which people’s failings kill them, whereas in Se7en, the bad guy killed people because of their failings in a poetic manner. Is that a fair difference? If so, then I still think it’s more like Saw, since the kids are all mutilated in Charlie and the Chocolate Factory due to their own (completely foreseeable) actions when confronted with Wonka’s fiendish contraptions.

There was a sequel to that?? Why do I now get the feeling that there was or will be an second sequel where the boy, now grown up, has to euthanize his parents? And then they can make a third sequel where he has to committ suicide!

It depends on the anime. I don’t recall anyone getting raped in Sailor Moon, for example, though there are some scenes in Sailor Moon R that could conceivably count as attempted rape. (Prince Demando’s attempted seduction of Neo Queen Serenity, or the part where the Sailor Senshi are taken prisoner and bound to crosses) Shonen anime is more likely to have rape scenes, though that’s been decreasing in the past few years. A recent episode of Bleach showed a character’s motivation for getting revenge being the villain and/or his followers’ (off-camera) sexual assault of the girl he loved many years earlier. There doesn’t even have to be rape for an anime movie or TV show to be disturbing to a child. Please, don’t let your kid see Grave of the Fireflies. Hell, don’t see it yourself unless you’re in the mood to cry uncontrollably.

Ninja Scroll and Grave of the Fireflies (among many examples) are not aimed at children. Animation =/= children’s movies.

Akira is rated R, and Ninja Scroll is Unrated in the US (which goes along with the R rating it got in Canada, Australia and some other countries imdb lists)…I seriously doubt either was aimed at kids. I know my brother had to talk my parents into buying Akira for him since he wasn’t old enough to buy an R-rated movie yet when we saw it.

I’m having trouble following this zombie thread. Could you tell me, who is John Galt? :confused: