I saw The Incredibles for the first time last night. Beautifully rendered, well-paced, and very entertaining. I enjoyed it immensely.
Having said that, am I the only one who notice the conservative themes of this movie?
[ul]
[li]Evil trial lawyers bring down the super heroes.[/li][li]Our first villain is French.[/li][li]That whole theme of enforced mediocrity seemed very (Ayn) Randian. First, we see super heroes forced to be mediocre by government bureaucrats. Then we see Dash hounded by his mom into not using his super-speed in athletic events. Then we get the line “When everyone is special, no one is.” I felt like I was watching The Fountainhead for kids.[/li][li]On the island, at the caves, Elastigirl tells Violet and Dash that the villains they are fighting are not like TV villains. They want to kill people. She then tells Violet that she [Violet] shouldn’t hold back from using her full power to fight these villains. (A message for America in the War on Terror?)[/li][li]Speaking of killing, the villains in this film don’t get captured or de-fanged, as in typical childrens’ films. They get killed. In large numbers.[/ul][/li]
I went into this movie with no foreknowledge of it, and no preconceived notions. These themes jumped out at me. When I got home, I googled a bit and found that I am not alone in noticing them. I’m curious whether any other dopers saw the film this way? And were there any conservative moments I missed? Any hidden Ayn Rand references, for example?
The New York Times review made note of the mediocrity thing, but (fortunately) didn’t talk about Rand. They stuck to the other ways in which the film makes some very astute comments about America’s educational system. (You did overlook Mr. Incredible’s comment that “this culture keeps finding new ways to celebrate mediocrity” when Dash’s “graduation” from fourth grade to fifth is discussed. I’m skeptical the film has a conservative agenda. It’s the brainchild of Brad Bird, ex-The Simpsons, and that show is written primarily by leftist Harvard grads. Conservatives don’t like those things, sure, but trial lawyers and the French are also easy targets comedically. I think that’s all they are here. Everybody makes fun of lawyers and the French. Bird spent years trying to get this movie made, and it’s only in the last couple of years that disliking trial lawyers and the French became a conservative thing.
[QUOTE=spoke-]
[li]On the island, at the caves, Elastigirl tells Violet and Dash that the villains they are fighting are not like TV villains. They want to kill people. She then tells Violet that she [Violet] shouldn’t hold back from using her full power to fight these villains. (A message for America in the War on Terror?)[/li][li]Speaking of killing, the villains in this film don’t get captured or de-fanged, as in typical childrens’ films. They get killed. In large numbers.[/list][/li][/quote]
Bird says “Really, really little kids should not see this movie. They should wait till they get older. We’re getting some reactions from people who were disappointed that their four-year-old was a little freaked out by it. Well, I don’t want to compromise the intensity in order to please a four-year-old.”
And from the Trivia, “Brad Bird got the idea for the film in the early 1990s, basing the story on his own experiences trying to balance a career with family.”
OK, so how come people are independently noticing the conservative themes? As I said, I had no preconceived notions. Only after googling did I learn that others had made the same observations.
And if that were random, shouldn’t an equal number of people have noticed “liberal” themes?
The fact that Brad Bird worked for The Simpsons doesn’t prove much, in my view, unless you have information that conservatives were screened from that show in the hiring process. Besides which, it has been my observation that libertarianism and irreverent humor are quite compatible. (See South Park.)
I should note that I am not criticizing the film for having conservative themes, merely observing the fact. Lord knows there have been plenty of films and cartoons with liberal themes over the years, so I guess turnabout is fair play. (I’m moderate-to-liberal myself, FTR.)
That doesn’t make sense. “People independently came to the same conclusion, so there must be something to it?”
Look, I didn’t say you made up anything that isn’t there. You didn’t. I just don’t think the movie is intentionally putting forth a conversative message.
It’s not random. You’re noticing themes and quotes that are really there and (in my opinion) extrapolating a conservative bent that isn’t. That’s all.
The show is pretty even-handed in its political humor, but the staff is admittedly liberal with the exception of John Swartzwelder. I don’t have proof that Bird is left-leaning, I just think it’s not unreasonable to presume so.
For me, the big point is the one you didn’t respond to: the fact that the idea for the movie is not new, it’s about a decade old. Bird spent a long time trying to get a studio interested in The Incredibles. In my view that makes it less likely that he came up with a story to put forth all these conservative notions that are pretty new. The war on terror is about three years old, the anti-French streak in conservatism has been very pronounced for maybe two years, and trial lawyers were a big issue just in the last year. I think you’re overlooking how long it takes to make a movie, especially a movie of this type. IMDb (again) says filming began on April 15, 2002, though I’m not sure exactly what filming means with a CGI movie. Writing began a long time before that, I’m sure.
I realized later that I wasn’t think of the movie review, I was thinking of a newer piece that dealt more exclusively with the education side of things.
Libertarian/Objectivist ideas have been around for decades.
The anti-French thing might be coincidental, or it might be something that was added to the villain’s character since “filming began” in 2002.
The line about using your full power to fight the villains could easily have been added after “filming began” in 2002.
Trial lawyers have been a conservative bogeyman for at least twenty years. Where have you been? Did you miss all the so-called “tort reform” of the 80s?
Yeah, I did miss that. Like I said, what could be an easier, broader target for comedy than lawyers and the French? That’s hardly a hallmark of conservative thinking.
You drew a parallel between the War on Terror and the “they will kill you” thing.
Making him a French Mime was just a way to have the Joker in the film, without having the Joker in the film.
And where, exactly, did any of the Family Incredible kill anybody?
True, villains died, but I don’t recall any of them dying except by their own villainy.
Syndrome being the principle example.
The henchmen died in vehicle accidents.
Yes, I recall the scenes with Dash & the hovercars. But Dash only attacked one of them, & he wasn’t even on the vehicle when it crashed. In fact, Dash lost that particular fight.
Not sure the French character was supposed to be a mime. If so, he was a very bad mime, since he spoke. In French. (With subtitles.)
And henchmen got killed left and right. Not just in “accidents.” I believe I recall Mr. Incredible throwing one hovercar into another, with explosive results. And didn’t Mr. Incredible also throw a car at Syndrome, causing (if indirectly) his death?
Not that I’m saying the villains didn’t deserve to die-- only that it doesn’t usually happen in this sort of film.
His reveal looked a heck of a lot like a scene from the Batman animated series. Cool.
And, if a proper government safety inspection had been scheduled, and the Nomanisan research facility was under OSHA jurisdiction, perhaps there would have been safety restraints on those vehicles. Yet another example of the way a Republican administration disregards the health and welfare of the people in favour of the wealthy industrialists.
Don’t get me started on Dash and the blatant contempt shown for Ameircan Liberal educators. He would never have dreampt of manuevering those chase vehicles into such dangerous situations if he had learned any respect for the self-esteem of the minions involved…
Well, I’m sure he’d find that amusing, given the liberal slant he was (not entirely undeservedly, IMHO) accused of putting into “The Iron Giant”. You can see echoes of it in “The Incredibles” too, although it’s less pronounced, in that Syndrome is an arms dealer.
There’s nothing in The Iron Giant** that is inconsistent with a libertarian/objectivist world view.
In fact, the evil bureaucrat is the villain of that piece, if you’ll recall.
Here’s an interesting review by an objectivist writer who embraces the film, and sees something of Ayn Rand in the character of Edna Mode (the costume designer).
I just remembered another suspicious line from the movie. When Elastigirl is telling Violet to use her powers against the villains, she says:
“We no longer have room for doubt.”
That line doesn’t make much sense in the context of the movie, and is awfully clunky as a result. (“Doubt” wasn’t the problem for our heroes.) On the other hand, the line makes perfect sense if Violet is an allegorical America:
We no longer have room for doubt. Don’t hold back Use your full powers to combat the villains.
Did you miss all the so-called “tort reform” of the 80s?