I know in America we are all supposed to hate and revile Communists and Communist countries. And I know we are supposed to believe Communism never succeeds, despite its lofty goals. But all that aside I was wondering. Considering things like standard of living, freedoms, both economic and political, what is the most successful Communist country to-date?
Define “communist” - if just in name, then China is far and away the winner. But they’re not really communist. Neither are any modern governments anything like what Marx envisioned.
The most successful, that I know of, who fit the idea of communist but were never labelled as such were most Indian tribes. Most property was communal, government was by “tribal law” - like a jury, you debate until you reach consensus - and it was shameful to have plenty when others in your tribe were wanting.
I think China is communist in name only these days. Certainly much (most? all?) of their more recent success comes from adopting dreaded capitalist practices…and all of their problems and baggage stem from trying to hold on with a death grip to their failing ideology on everything else. Eventually something will have to give…and I doubt it will be pretty whichever way to tank treads go.
Most successful huh? Hm…I suppose Cuba would be the most successful pure communist state. Or maybe Vietnam, though again I believe they have taken China’s lead and are integrating capitalism to a small degree at least.
Not a lot of success stories to choose from…and the ones I picked (even China) aren’t all THAT great either.
If by communism you mean lack of private property, from each according to ability, to each according to need, etc., i.e. fitting the ideals of communism (except materialism and atheism, natch) then (although it’s not technically a country) I’d suppose Mt. Athos would have to be in the running. It’s a (previously de facto, now de jure) autonomous confederation of twenty monasteries, and has existed for over a thousand years.
Communism would be great if it weren’t for the people running it.
The lesson learned from communism is that attempts to institute it on a country-wide basis inevitably results in a repressive, totalitarian state. What you’ll find is that the most successful communist state will be that state which had the highest standard of living before it adopted communism. West Germany or Czechoslovakia probably fit that bill.
China is communist in name only. During the time that it was a true communist country, it devoured its own people.
To accept Mt. Athos we’d also be accepting Native American tribes, though.
True communist countries on the large, industrial scale ala European states that Marx was familiar with is very, very difficult. Russia tried it and it’s arguable how well that worked for the period of time in which the Soviet Union existed. Soviet GDP wasn’t that bad, but standard of living wasn’t that great. There was also a lot of capitalism within the Soviet Union on the black market, and the way in which the ruling classes conducted themselves sort of precluded the USSR from being what could truly be called a true communist country.
I’d say historically the Soviet Union was the most successful communist country, although depending on which year in the Soviet timeline you look at you might have a hard time telling if it’s really a communist country or just an absolutist country which uses the ideals of communism to try and placate the masses.
The USSR fielded an enormously powerful military force, and a huge arsenal of nuclear weapons. They were easily a super power just like the United States. And depending on who you ask and on what year many people felt the U.S. would not fare well against the Soviet military machine.
Economically the Soviet Union had a respectable GDP for many years.
China is arguably more successful because they’re still around and are still a power.
However China has yet to truly equal the power the USSR held in its heyday. And China has also mainly seen themselves emerging as a power while they were in the process of privatizing and opening up to capitalist ideas.
Cuba was never self-sufficient, when the USSR collapsed and they lost their aid it was incredibly damaging to the Cubans, and they’ve very slowly been recovering via the tourism industry.
North Korea is too much of a wasteland/hell to be considered a success at anything.
Could those answering ‘none of the above’ elaborate a bit? Remember, the question is not ‘which communist country to date do you like best?’, it’s ‘which one has been most successful?’
In order to answer ‘none of the above’, it must either be the case that they are all exactly equal in their success (which seems unlikely), or that the comparison is impossible because there has never actually been any communist country.
Soviet
China
East Europe
North Korea
Vietnam
Cambodia
Laos
Cuba
Albania in East Europe. While it was dirt poor, a lousy place with a piece of shit leadership and a piece of shit communist totalitarian regime, they, as far as I know, at least didn’t engage in genocide or wholesale slaughter which seem to be one of the hallmarks of communism elsewhere.
Actually, Albania did do these things. Forced collectivization of agriculture killed many thousands of people, and waves of political purges would imprison and kill many more, often without trial.
Some Communist countries would justify repression like this by saying it was necessary for modernization, yet this flimsy excuse couldn’t be used by Albania. They emerged from this hell more backward than before.
Yeah, Albania turned hyper-xenophobic under the Communists and spent a lot of money building bunkers to prepare for an invasion that never came. Not really a great success story, there.
I have to say that the most successful Communist country was Russia. They went into Communism a backwards agrarian society, and within forty years had managed to fully industrialize, equip a modern army strong enough to break Hitler, and push technological boundaries to the point where they were leading the world in the space race and creating an empire to rival that which Britain had come up with.
And they only had to kill about ten million people of their own people- not counting the ten to twenty million killed in World War Two, many of which can be ascribed directly to Stalin’s paranoid need to eliminate his competent generals- in order to do it.
Agreed. Setting aside China – primarily because its growth in power happened only after market reforms were instituted under Deng – the Soviets managed to take a doomed economic and political system, modernize itself, and turn itself into a rival for the most powerful country the world has ever known. That’s pretty impressive.
Let’s see, on the bad side, most Laos live on less than a dollar a day. On the plus side, a dollar buys a tasty bottle of Beerlao and some kick-ass firewater called laolao. On second thought, laolao is another downside… But Beerlao is good beer… Whew, this is a close call.
Well if you take into account the very bloody revolution, the millions and millions murdered by the Soviet communists in their drive to industrialize, the millions more killed due to their criminal inept handling of word war II, I think Albania and Laos sounds downright benign and cosy by comparison. We have to work with a pretty low bar for success here. Never mind wealth and industrialization, not murdering your own population by the millions is fairly successful when you consider the field.