I just saw SITR the second time. I marvel once again at the dance sequences and the abilities of Gene Kelly and O’Connor.
Now I have a few questions.
Does Jean Hagen sound like that in real life? Does anyone else feel that Debbie Reynolds is about the worse choice for the female lead? (too young and unsophisticated).
Jean Hagen did not sound like that in real life. If you would like to know what her actual voice was like, watch the movie again. You remember that scene where we see Debbie Reynolds dubbing the voice for Jean Hagen? For some reason, the producers didn’t like the sound of Debbie’s voice, so they dubbed it. With Jean Hagen. Go figure.
And, by the way, no silent stars’ careers were killed because they had “bad voices.”
Some became less marketable because of heavy accents and lack of English skills (Pola Negri, Emil Jannings, Greta Nissen). But foreign stars like Garbo, Dietrich and Chevalier certainly didn’t suffer.
It was said that Brooklyn or Bronx accents killed the careers of Clara Bow, the Talmadge sisters and others—but look at Mae West and Barbara Stanwyck, both Brooklyn gals.
And John Gilbert did not have a “high, squeaky voice,” as you can hear by watching his dozen-or-so talkies (some of them quite good). His career actually died from his own self-destructiveness and from changing tastes in leading men.
I didn’t know John Gilbert was gay. But how did his affairs kill his career?
Har. Very funny, Arnie. Matter-of-fact, John was as straight as . . . Well, as straight as one can get. He fell in love with all of his leading ladies, and all four of his wives were actresses.
Great story: he and wife #3, the brilliantly bitchy Ina Claire, were being interviewed at the outset of their honeymoon in 1929. “What’s it like being married to a famous star?” a reporter asked Ina. “I don’t know,” she purred. “Why don’t you ask my husband?”
P.S. marriage did not last long
Good for Ina! John Gilbert sounds like Woody Allen, “straight as you can get and falls in love with all his leading ladies.”
Actually, John Gilbert’s problem with the transition to talkies was accurately portrayed in SINGIN’ IN THE RAIN. But it was in the scene where Gene Kelly says, “Can’t I just say 'I love you, I love you, I love you!”? Gilbert’s silent acting style was too overdramatic for talkies, and the florid dialog was thought ridiculous.
There were a few people whose voices were unsuited for talkies – for instance, Raymond Griffith, who was a major star who quit immediately when talkies came in (he did make one talking film, but had a nonspeaking part). Griffith could only speak in a hoarse whisper and quit acting to go into producing.
“What we have here is failure to communicate.” – Strother Martin, anticipating the Internet.
Actually, John Gilbert’s problem with the transition to talkies was accurately portrayed in SINGIN’ IN THE RAIN. But it was in the scene where Gene Kelly says, “Can’t I just say 'I love you, I love you, I love you!”? Gilbert’s silent acting style was too overdramatic for talkies, and the florid dialog was thought ridiculous.
There were a few people whose voices were unsuited for talkies – for instance, Raymond Griffith, who was a major star who quit immediately when talkies came in (he did make one talking film, but had a nonspeaking part). Griffith could only speak in a hoarse whisper and quit acting to go into producing.
“What we have here is failure to communicate.” – Strother Martin, anticipating the Internet.
Is he still alive? I understand those horse whisperers are all the rage!
(Oh, forgive me…I couldn’t contain myself!)
“I don’t know…I don’t know.” – St. DooDah
Well, thanks to GKittridge who was the only one to answer my question!
Now that the Major’s question is handled let’s get back to the dirt.
Granted Gilbert had a self destructive personality that helped cut his career short.
I was also under the impression that he got into a fight with L. B. Mayer in a men’s room during the King Vidor/Elenor Bordman wedding.
Mayer made a comment (about Gilbert’s affair with Gretta Garbo) “Sleep with her. Don’t marry her.”
Gilbert was said to have decked Mayer.
When he got off the floor (his head hit the tile…blood was drawn) Mayer was supposed to have said “I’ll destroy you.”
Source of this story…Elenor Bordman!
Jean Hagen (remember her?) also played the wife for three seasons on the original Danny Thomas Show. She had great comic timing but got tired of playing straight man to a husband AND two kids. Despite the fact that she had points in the show, she quit and was seldom heard of afterwards, either in TV or movies.
It was explained that the character had died, and Thomas mourned and dated for a number of episodes before winding up with a new wife (Marjorie Lord) and stepdaughter (Angela Cartwright). But Jean Hagen will live in TV trivia forever as the first major sitcom character who was killed off.
I understand all the words, they just don’t make sense together like that.
Doug—
The Mayer/Gilbert fight is one of those stories that will never be known for sure. There’s another version, that the two got into a battle over the 1928 film “Man, Woman and Sin,” during which Gilbert told Mayer that his (Gilbert’s) mother had been a whore, and Mayer socked him. Suffice it to say the two hated each other, which did not help Gilbert’s career.
Shame—Gilbert was a real cutie and a real talent, but everyone who knew him agrees he was a real mess, too. He and “Garbo the Glad Girl” must have been a laff-a-minute couple at a house party.
If Kittridge is posting here, then I have to post here, too. It’s required. In this case, he already answered the question.
I’m confused. Is this the conversation?
Gilbert (to Mayer): My mother was a whore.
Mayer: Take that, you dirty rat! (swift uppercut to Gilbert’s handsome chin.)
Was Mayer married to Gilbert’s mother or something?
Naw, but Mayer supposedly had a mother complex that belonged in the Smithsonian under glass. I’m not saying I believe that story, or the other one about the wedding, either.
After all, other MGM stars’ careers plummeted about the same time—Mae Murray, Anita Page, James Murray . . . They can’t all have gotten into fistfights with L.B.!
Don’t bet on it. I’m a non-violent type, myself, but I wouldn’t mind planting my knuckles on that ugly Mayer kisser.
THAT’S for he way you treated Ernst Lubitsch! And HERE’S one for Irving Thalberg!
Uke
And here’s for what you did to Buster Keaton.
Okay, Keaton drank too much and went over budget.
But here’s for what you did to him, anyway.
Why, in the name of pete, team Keaton up with Jimmy Durante?
To be more precise, Jean Hagen dubbed for Debbie Reynolds when 'Kathy' was singing for 'Lena' in the final scene (the song was "Singing in the Rain" itself.) A woman named Betty Noyes (not sure about the last name, but it did start with an N, and it wasn't Marti Nixon, queen of the dubbers) dubbed for Reynolds in the song "Would You." Reynolds sang her other music herself. The reason given was that Reynolds' voice had too strong a Texas accent for the role, according to the notes on the recording (for a fun example, listen to her sing "in the mornin', in the mornin'.")It’s MarNi, not MarTi Nixon. Someone once called her “The Ghostess with the Mostess” for her many uncredited voiceovers. In case you’re interested in what she looks like, she actually appears on-screen as one of the singing nuns in The Sound of Music. Look for Sister Sophia.
Sorry, Iolanthe, but I live to correct!