The mystery of the trinity

I don’t know why it is so hard for some athiests to accept that christians and religions of all types simply explain things in ways that make sense within our limits of comprehension.

Maybe the trinity really represents the ability of a supreme being to be perfectly 100% objective in making decisions. Who we call the father is the creator, he only conisders the greater good in his plan for the universe. The son or Jesus can relate to us and work with us but only within the bounds of his human self. The holy ghost would only concern himself with the spirititual aspect and not have any affect or even concern himself with the physical things going on.

We can comprehend that just fine. It’s called a prophet. Jesus claimed to* be* God. That is incomprehensible and irrational.

“People swarm everywhere [in Constantinople], talking of incomprehensible matters, in hovels, streets and squares, marketplaces and crossroads. When I ask how many oboloi I have to pay, they answer with hairsplitting arguments about the born and the unborn. If I inquire the price of bread, I am told that the Father is greater than the Son. I call a servant to tell me whether my bath is ready; he rejoins that the Son was created out of nothing.”

Gregory of Nyssa

From Lest Darkness Fall, by L. Sprague de Camp (a Connecticut Yankee story – 20th-Century American archaelogist Martin Padway finds himself transported by a bolt of lightning to 6th-Century Rome; in need of money, he has just invented/introduced the process of distilling wine into brandy):

Because there’s often “Gosh, we just don’t know, such is the limits of our ability to comprehend the divine.” on one side, and “God is this. God is that.” on the other.

Incomprehension as an excuse rarely gets the all-encompassing usage it probably should do.

If one reads John 10, they can understand that when Jesus was accused of blasphemy, He quoted the psalmist:" It says in YOUR Law(( Not God’s); I said you are gods, so why do you accuse me of Blasphemy,because I call God my father. when your father’s did". Sounds to me that he didn’t consider himself any different than any other man.

Yeah, if you take that one verse, by itself, and don’t read any more of the Gospel of John. Or any other of the Gospels.

It was after reading more of what Jesus was quoted as saying I found many contradictions. If Jesus were truly God in any other sense, he sure didn’t seem to know a lot. Of course I don’t believe the Bible is the word of God, it can be proven that it was the work and teachings of other human beings. It is based on faith not fact.

Please forgive me if I don’t bow to your supremacy over Jesus.

My take on this is Jesus is the child God, not the parent God. A child needs to be a child, not a smaller tri-omni God, but a true child and learn their own identity along their journey, with mistakes already anticipated by the parent and with all contingency plans in place - we are after all taking about God here. God in the entirety is parent and child (and the bond between them, the Holy Spirit).

I extend this further, as we are all children of God, and we will all realize this and everything we have already done was anticipated and planned for by our parent God, therefor once we realize we are God’s child we are sinless, because everything that came before lead us tot hat realization that it was in the parents plan for us and we never deviated from it.

Can you prove it wasn’t written and called the word of God by Humans?

If we humans (who don’t know all things even before they happened and acted like the Bible says God did, We would put such a human in Jail.

Humans can’t know things before they happen, Just guess , but I don’t think a loving, all knowing all powerful being would create a monster that he knew ahead of time would cause the death of his other children, Kill innocent children because he was mad at the humans he created with faults, knew it, then punished them for being as he knew ahead of time what and how they would do things.

As a further quote This is just a belief not proven to be true and surely not the actions of a good parent. How can a loving all knowing Being treat it’s children like a monster parent would do if he were mere human. I would not punish a month old baby, but your idea of a God would. How and what God is said to do is not the work of a loving being but the work of human beings, That is a proven fact.

That is your belief and you have every right to believe it. But human father that acted like your God does he would be put in Jail. We seem to expect more of human beings who do not know the future, nor the mind of others than we expect of a supreme Being.

I am just human and I would never treat my children like your God is said to have done and does. I would not create a monster that I knew would Destroy any of my children, nor would I punish a tiny baby for doing what they do. Were I was as Hitler’s mother I would not conceive such a being that I knew would do as Hitler did. I would expect a Supreme Being to do better than me.

BTW, here’s a discussion of whether Jesus believed he was God, excerpted from How Jesus Became God, by Bart D. Ehrman. He concludes Jesus believed he was the Messiah but not God. And any Jew will tell you the Messiah is not in any sense God, and Jesus was first and last a nice Jewish boy – when he prayed, he would not have done the hands-clasping thing, he would have done the head-bobbing thing.

If One takes the entire Bible into account, it still is just the word, work, and belief of other humans. Why is the Bible anymore God’s work or inspiration than the Words of Muhammad? Jesus is quoted as saying Scriptures were good for teaching, and in John 10 He calls the O T YOUR LAW, not Gods.

It is a proven fact that Humans called the Bible God’s word and was inspired by God. In reality we take the words of another human. One of the reasons there are so many different religions. The many divisions of Christianity also bear this out.

It was written by humans & called the Word of God.

Because it was the Word of God.

And there is enough evidence to convince me, but not you. So I can prove it to myself but not to you.

The Bible makes it clear that every act of creation is from God, this includes the Bible, but also includes all other books and writings.

So the question is not if the Bible is the Word of God, because everything is, but the question is it’s purpose, why it was given to us. The answer is that it is for instruction. So is everything else, but it is the lessons that differ, or at least the teaching method used to reach a people.

[QUOTE= John 1:3]
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
[/QUOTE]

So the answer has always been instead of trying to elevate the Bible above other scared texts, but to raise other sacred texts up to the level of the Bible - because it is all from God.

That would appear to preclude free will, at least that of writers. And of all artists. You don’t really believe that, do you?

Occam’s razor…The trinity is a complex construct, created to allow a person to “claim” to still being monotheist as required by a previous religious edict while still having the benefit of multiple gods to fill out the plot line.

You get all of the upgrades of polytheism without the risk of a crisis of faith.