That white supremacists are in error and immoral because there is no such thing as any “superior race”? That there is no such thing as one white race? Because there truly isn’t, at least not historically. The conception of the white race only came about due to pretty much socially forced assimilation of Southern and Eastern Europeans. These peoples had their own distinct cultural identities which were not racial, but regional, in nature; However due to social pressure to assimilate, they were basically shunned into losing that sense of culture. As a result a conception of a bland generic “white race” developed, although there never was a universal concept of such previously. During the founding of this country, only Saxons made up the “white race”; Others were undesirable. With each successive wave of immigrants, each lost their separate identity in a bid to be accepted by mainstream culture.
“White Culture” as such, which white supremacists attempt to uphold, doesn’t truly exist. If anything, it is simply a construction made to take away the individuality of immigrant cultures. Black Culture developed generally due to the shared harsh treatment of people of African and Caribbean descent, and by a similar (though more ugly) form of assimilation through slavery. But even then, there are differences.
As far as misogyny, I hold that while men and women are physically (and to degrees, emotionally) different and each have a unique set of circumstances due to their different physiology, neither is superior to the other; each’s unique strength and weakness complements the other; and as such there is no reason (logically or morally) to denigrate, or mistreat, a member of the opposite sex. There is no logical basis for misogyny. There is also no logical basis for viewing men and women as “the same” because we are not. But not being the same does not mean either is superior or inferior. Simply different. Different is good.
As someone who has been on both sides of the male/female coin, it’s hard to articulate just the sheer invisibility of it from the male side and the stark difference once you pass for female.
There are a few perks, yes, when you’re pretty sometimes people get a little TOO nice to you and sometimes even dote on you or go out of their way to help you or take responsibility for things that are their fault to spare you. That’s nice and sweet, if awkward.
But there’s a lot of dark side. For one, my credibility with technology has gone way, way down. It’s actually notable to go to a tech store for cables or components or something and not get talked down to. People just assume I need things explained to me when I’m a PhD student in a computer field. It was not this way before, when I was presenting male people assumed I had basic competency unless I asked.
And… well, I have to think twice about walking alone at night now. Catcalls are annoying but not too harmful, but I’ve gotten groped, hit on as a captive audience on a bus or alone at a bus stop, and even threatened after transitioning. It’s really, really scary especially since I’m a lot weaker now and could easily be overpowered.
Yes, they are. So what? Men are victims of violent crime more often than women, overall. Men are much more likely to get beat up or murdered than women. Would you rather get groped, or punched with possible brain damage resulting? Raped, or killed?
And groping of men is not reported in the first place because men do not care about it as much, and nobody else cares at all when it happens to a man. Men would be laughed out of the room for complaining about a lot of things feminists complain about, such as minor sexual assaults or verbal sexual harassment.
It has taken longer than we thought. Then again, I might have a point or at least a partial one. I am not a dumb person and I have my own experiences. Consider that there just might be some middle ground. The last thing I want is to oppress anyone. I just want to hang out with my daughters and travel when I am not working but people keep implying I am the oppressor when I never did any such thing. The main “benefit” I get from being a white male is paying for other people’s stuff with no expectation of anything in return. There is also the possibility that I will be expected to give my own life to save someone else and possibly die in very painful way in the event of a true emergency. I would gladly do that by instinct but I have never heard of an equivalent social contract in my own favor. It all looks pretty one-sided when you look at it from the outside.
That is the problem we keep running into. Everyone is privileged in some situations and no one is in all of them. Therefore, it doesn’t mean anything other than the fact that attractive 25 year old female pharma reps get better treatment than a high school dropout with neck tattoos. That is so obvious that there doesn’t need to be a term for it.
I like being a tall (that part does matter) white male just fine. I think I would do equally well being a white female or an Asian. I am already a little bit Jewish by heritage and would be happy to go all the way with that. I can’t think of any particular group that I wouldn’t want to be a part of if I needed to except for ISIS. I just look at people as individuals.
I had a great time in Colorado! I got to see a lot of people I haven’t seen in 20+ years just by coincidence. No, I didn’t get laid but thanks for asking. It was more of a family trip that focused on kids and relaxation. Maybe later this week. I have a few promising matches I am working on. I am more about experiences though so I will have to see what happens.
Your continuing dissatisfaction w/ what you believe you’re entitled to is only going to grow when you realize you can’t win the ‘there’s no white male privilege’ argument either. Not in the real world, anyway.
Well, let me take you out sometime. I will make sure you have the night of your life - no strings attached. Sometimes you just have to have fun and not worry about overarching social issues.
You’re not an oppressor. Just consider the possibility that you may, without realizing it, benefit in many different and small but significant ways each day due to your race and gender. Is that really so impossible to consider?
I don’t want to be dense. I can walk into almost any place in the U.S. with clipboard with no questions asked. I can also call the executive offices of almost any company and actually get one of them on the phone but that is just me. Most people can’t. I have an ongoing dispute with Lowes about my flooring and you better bet your ass that I have been working with their Chief Operating Officer over the last three months to fire those those responsible and get the job done right (it is a case of blatant consumer and contract fraud that could end up in court). I probably couldn’t do that if I was an unknown person but I don’t think that has much to do with me being white. It is more about help from legal savvy friends including one from this board that I appreciate.
The thing is, I am a senior management consultant to mega-corps and know how to navigate everyone and everything. It has little to do with me being white. I work with lots of female coworkers as well especially on the project management side and they are my bosses in some roles. I am working on a project now with a black female project manager from Memphis and I am drowned in Indians with varying levels of competence.
My point is that competence is usually recognized and has little to do with sex, race or anything else. I really don’t think that people are as blatantly biased as other people seem to. Almost anyone that tries hard and does a good job can achieve whatever they want.
I think you misinterpreted. He was talking about “good” in the context of being good at successfully shoplifting. Some of the shoplifters were good, meaning that they did not get caught, whereas most were not good: they got caught and went to jail.
I think you’re still succumbing to the belief that your personal experience is the most important thing here (or even that it’s important at all).
Just please try to consider that your personal experience really tells you nothing at all about how day to day life is for black people, women, or other groups.
I read some of these threads, but tend not to post. It’s yelling at the ocean.
This thread reminds me of the old line from Dean Martin:** “It’s Frank Sinatra’s world, we just live in it.”**
As a white middle aged male in the U.S., it is self evident that it’s a white Guy’s world and folks of other stripe just live in it. There has been wonderful progress to evolve our culture, but all in reaction to this truth. We started with a white man’s power base and all changes to human rights have been in relation to that.
Making up numbers to illustrate relative proportions, back when “America Was Great Again” the White Male View represented “over 90%” of the mainstream (not a real number, simply indicating “the vast majority”). Now, it may represent, oh, 60% of the mainstream messaging. A huge shift that is scary to folks who want to preserve the way things were, but still a large majority that the others groups want to diversify further.
All IMHO, but it helps me process folks like you Shagnasty - you see how much has changed and want to declare Mission Accomplished. Others put this into a longer, broader view that you have made it clear you really can’t see.