In this Article http://www.nypost.com/seven/02102003/commentary/68775.htm
You have several glaring slurs against The French, implying that they have no memory of the losses suffered in the two world wars, that they have poor personal hygiene, and the usual no brainer “you’d all be speaking German if it wasn’t for us” attitude.
But, let me point out some of your stupider errors.
“Deutchland Uber Alles” was not the Nazi national anthem, it was written in 1841.
That the idea of French opposition to war is “Unamerican” is laughable, at best.
that 91% of French people are against getting rid of Saddam, is a misrepresentation of facts. They are against rushing headlong into war. Which a large percentage of Americans are against too. Are they UnAmerican too?
as for usual Surrender Monkey rhetoric, well, its been done to death on these boards lately.
so, Steve Dunleavy, you can go fuck yourself, you jingoistic warmonger.
What I don’t * quite* understand is that France is being dissed for a wide range of ‘anti-American’ behavior yet it is France that best reflects the majority view in every country in which public opinion polls have been taken, including the US – i.e. more time, more inspectors, no attack without a second Resolution.
Not only that, but it’s France that is insisting – along with many others – that the UN is the correct legal framework within which to pursue a remedy against Iraq – again, the majority view in every country in which public opinion polls have been taken, including the US
The stand of France, together with Germany, is what the US public want to happen yet I keep reading the US should leave the UN because it’s … well, insert any emotional term that Rumsfeld / Bush / Cheney / Powell come up with this week ….
Stupid article which will enrage idiots more then they already are.
This anti-American shit is going beyond a joke. Being against policy, making decisions in you own national interests is not being anti-American but if this shit goeson much longer and the US continue threatening countries that don’t fall into place there will be a lot of bad feeling out there on both sides. FUBAR
Whenever I hear “You’d be speking German if it wasn’t for US” I think of KillingZoe
For even more fun, I was watching Fox News the other day on our TV at work and one of the anchor guys (maybe not an anchor, but whoever is in the afternoon - brown hair, etc) held up a copy of the Post and said that every single person in France should read that Post article, they could view it on nypost.com and hopefully they would remember just how much they owe to us.
No question the tone of the Post commentary (not article, commentary) is stupidly inflammatory. For all that, it’s not so grievously inaccurate.
“Deutschland Uber Alles” (as the song is popularly known outside Germany) was certainly the anthem during Nazi rule, although used in other forms under many regimes before and since.
More sober commentators in this country and abroad (the editor of Die Zeit, Josef Joffe comes to mind) have remarked on the degree to which French opposition appears to stem from a desire to counter American “hegemony” (not to mention little things like oil deals with the Iraqis) and assert France’s role in diplomacy, regardless of the potential cost. Classifying that as “anti-Americanism” may be oversimplification, but it’s not totally off-target.
Countering the Post with misinformation about the level of support in the U.S. and abroad for Bush’s stance toward Iraq doesn’t help matters either. I have consistently had strong misgivings about the push for war and its potential consequences, but that doesn’t prevent me from realizing that France and Germany are very much in the minority in their attempts to thwart the U.S., whose government has considerably more backing than some would have you believe.
Not exactly. while it was retained as a national song during Nazi rule, the Horst Wessel song was regarded as the “anthem”.
Its called “Deutchland Uber Alles” because of the first line of the first verse. This verse was misrepresented as Germany ruling over all. Instead of “Germany first over all”.
After the second world war, the Anthem was declared as the third verse of the original song to be the German National Anthem.
According to various sources, the Horst Wessel song was the Nazi Party anthem. “Deutschland Uber Alles” continued to be the German national anthem under Hitler.
While the article definitely appeals to the jingoistic know-nothings (of which I know you all think I’m a charter member), the (I’m looking at you, Twistof Fate) attitude of some Europeans of “The Americans died to save us from the Nazis, so what?” is . . . well. . . infuriating. I don’t expect you guys to agree with us because of that or to go against your own national interests, but the historical amnesia of some Europeans is just amazing.
FTR, while I deplore the prospect of war and wish Bush would read Sun Tzu’s aphorism that victory is best achieved without battle, I also think the suggestion from France, Germany, and China that “inspections aren’t working, let’s send in more inspectors” is, in fact, mere appeasement. Someone said that insanity is defined as performing the same actions and expecting different results.
Heck, it almost be worth it for the US to call off hostilities, let Saddam build up his NBC weapons, and watch him (or if he dies, his even scarier son Uday) threaten European interests in the MidEast, if only to say “We told you so.”
How are you doing, young Willie McBride.
Do you mind if I sit here down by your grave side?
I’d ask for a cite for where I said or implied this, but I know none exists.
Despite your best efforts to put words in my mouth, I never said anything of the sort, never have, never will. I’m getting tired of your little jabs at me here in the pit. Either start putting some evidence behind your implications or stop them altogether.
I don’t think you are some “jingoistic knownothing” I know you are smarter than this and it infuriates me that you bring some attitude to the pit where you don’t have to back your claims up. A debate in the pit is still a debate. If you took the attitude you have in GD into the Pit you would find yourself having to respond to a flamewar a lot less often. I still wouldn’t see eye to eye with you on alot of things, but I’d hold alot more respect for your arguements if there wasn’t such a split personality in your posts.
Americans did die during the war, and their sacrifice is remembered and respected. It was a great thing that America did in the World Wars. there is no “selective amnesia” in Europe, their sacrifice is greatly remembered and respected. Read the “We shall remember” thread for an indication of that. Their dedication to Peacekeeping worldwide is admirable, and the UN peace forces benefit greatly from their expertise and dedication.
However, using the memory of the soldiers as some sort of stick to beat the allies into line with American policy is a disgrace. They died in the cause of achieving world peace, and their memories should be saying “Never Again”, not “How could you think differently?”
There are diplomatic means that can work for the US. Everything Colin Powell does to convince the UN nations of the need for action is undone by Rumsfeld shooting his mouth off about “old Europe” and “Axis of Weasels”. The US has to convince France, Germany et. al that their plan is necessary, but Bully Tactics and Emotional blackmail will only drive them further away.
Actually, I see it as “Inspections are starting to work, lets improve the process”. Full inspections will either prove Saddam is no threat, or prove he has the weapons, give the UN its second resolution and a full UN force will be available to pressure Iraq. Noone is suggesting Saddam is left alone, just the methods and justification of how disarmament goes ahead are the sticking point.
I’m not saying France is right about its current actions, but I cannot agree with the current treatment they are getting.
