The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down - Question and general discussion thread

[lobotomyboy63]

@Bonum_Legatum

It makes sense that “Robert E. Lee” refers to a steamboat or railroad engine because the next stanza “I don’t mind chopping wood” could refer to the Virgil chopping wood to sell. As in “Virgil! Look here comes the riverboat. Get to the river and see if the captain wants to buy wood.”

I read that Joan Baez heard it, sang what she heard, but got some of the words wrong. I always hear her sing, “I don’t mind ‘em chopping wood” but some say it’s “I don’t mind; I’m chopping wood.” Tune in at about 1:20 of this solo version.

- YouTube

The closed caption shows “I’m” (it also shows “the robbery Lee”). I don’t hear “I” (sounds like “eye”) but that schwa sound “uh” could be interpreted either way.

I pictured soldiers on the move, stopping by a farm to get food, fuel, etc. Years ago on the “Frontier House” PBS special, the families who tried to live like the pioneers all came up short on stocking wood for the winter. I can imagine Virgil had a cord or two, but he will need it and besides, what quantity might an army need? Especially if they’re using it to fuel an engine of some sort? I imagined a dozen or more Rebs swinging axes and felling lots of trees, not Virgil going out to take on the task single-handedly.

The CSA might simply commandeer what they need—they’re losing the war, it’s a last-ditch emergency effort—but they don’t. “I don’t care if the money’s no good” shows that they want to pay for what they take, but it also shows that the Confederate money has lost most of its value and will become totally worthless when CSA ends. Maybe the commanders are not paying much, nowhere near fair value even—the cash is like Monopoly money, anyway, so what difference does it make? But it’s more honorable.

I also inferred that their army coming around meant there might soon be a battle in the narrator’s front yard or nearby. On one hand if Yankees are in the neighborhood, Virgil may be glad for protection. On the other hand the Yankees may be chasing the Rebs, so can’t the Rebs please take the fight somewhere else? If the Rebs lose that particular battle, who knows what the aftermath will look like for Virgil?

The Band version: “By May the 10th, Richmond had fell.” Of course, a war doesn’t end like flipping a light switch. I assumed the song ended with Lee’s surrender in April but no. So which “night” did they drive old Dixie down?

• On May 10, 1865, Union cavalrymen captured Confederate President Jefferson Davis. The last land battle of the Civil War took place near Brownsville, Texas, on May 12, 1865.
• The Cherokee Confederate Indians were the last significant Confederate active force to surrender on June 23, 1865.
• The last Confederate surrender occurred on November 6, 1865, when the Confederate warship CSS Shenandoah surrendered at Liverpool, England.
• President Andrew Johnson formally declared the end of the war on August 20, 1866.

https://courses.lumenlearning.com/boundless-ushistory/chapter/the-end-of-the-civil-war/

[Voyager]

I’ve always heard Robert E. Lee as the steamship. Those of us old enough remember “Waiting for the Robert E. Lee” as a popular song - which Tom Lehrer references in “Wanna Go Back to Dixie.”
Virgil worked on the train, protecting it no doubt, until the Union ripped up the tracks and put it out of service. I can’t imagine his wife being excited by the train. The new steamboat, steaming down the Mississippi on the other hand. would be something worth running to see.

[scabpicker]

@Jackmannii

When you go on about how “they” defeated “old Dixie”, it does have the flavor of a Lost Cause lament rather than just referencing the horrors of war.

Yeah, in the end, that’s my problem with this song, no matter how pretty the arrangement is. It’s a lament about the people who supported “Dixie”. I don’t care if you weren’t a slave owner, if you fought in a rebellion which was primarily fought for the protection of owning slaves and you didn’t want to be a slave owner, the best we can say of you was that you were a fool at best. I’m not sure that the song communicates that, and I lean more towards it being a whitewashing of the cost that those fools delivered to the nation in some idiotic idea of “pride” and “honor”. Screw that, our people died on a stupid lie based on the color of our skin. It was horrible. The night they drove old Dixie down should be a vibrant, bright spectacle, not a slow mournful dirge.

[Just_Asking_Questions]

Interesting discussion.

I always thought the song took place after the war was over. Except for the Robert E Lee/robbery Lee (!) going by, everything else is in the past, during the war.

But that’s just an interpretation.

[Wheelz]

@scabpicker

I don’t care if you weren’t a slave owner, if you fought in a rebellion which was primarily fought for the protection of owning slaves and you didn’t want to be a slave owner, the best we can say of you was that you were a fool at best.

There’s no evidence that Virgil himself fought in the War, and I don’t get the sense that he had any particular affinity for the cause either.

He’s lost his brother, he’s lost his job, and for what? He’d probably be in exactly the same situation right now even if the South had won. I think the bitterness In the song comes from his realization that it was indeed a stupid and foolish war, not so much that his “side” lost.

[ASL_v2.0]

That is my read (or hearing) as well.

[scabpicker]

@Wheelz

There’s no evidence that Virgil himself fought in the War, and I don’t get the sense that he had any particular affinity for the cause either.

He’s lost his brother, he’s lost his job, and for what? He’d probably be in exactly the same situation right now even if the South had won. I think the bitterness In the song comes from his realization that it was indeed a stupid and foolish war, not so much that his “side” lost.

@Levon Helm

“Robbie and I worked on ‘The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down’ up in Woodstock. I remember taking him to the library so he could research the history and geography of the era and make General Robert E. Lee come out with all due respect.”

Levon, who at least advised Robertson on the writing of the song, saw it as a lament for Dixie. I disagree with him, Lee deserves no respect. I don’t know if Robertson actually had a position on the whole thing, being a Canadian.

I’m all for the listener interpreting the song as they like. So if you can happily interpret the lyrics in a way you’re comfortable with, do it. I’m not able to. The lyrics bothered me as a kid and it eventually got to where I couldn’t listen to the song anymore.

[ASL_v2.0]

Given how historically inaccurate a straight hearing of the lyrics would be, I’m not sure that I believe him (Levon). Or at least I’m not sure his intent had anything to do with what this Robbie character finally wrote down.

He spent time pouring over maps and history books to come up with a literal interpretation of General Lee leading his army through Tennessee? I agree Lee is unworthy of respect. I’m just not sure he got any of it in the song (which is all well and good to me). He gets a passing mention and an “I’m too busy to give a flirp” from Virgil.

ETA: I really don’t care what Levon says he tried to get “Robbie” to do. The author is dead (metaphorically, I mean). Surely the guy who claims to have taken him to the library to do work that doesn’t appear to have influenced the final draft much at all is even deader.

[kayT]

Is there anyone you do have respect for?

[slash2k]

@Wheelz

There’s no evidence that Virgil himself fought in the War, and I don’t get the sense that he had any particular affinity for the cause either.

I drove on the Danville train
'Til Stoneman’s cavalry came and tore up the tracks again
…
Like my father before me, I’m a working man
And like my brother before me, I took a rebel stand

The Danville train (the Richmond & Danville Railroad) was an essential supply line from the rest of the Confederacy to Richmond and the forces in the field in northern Virginia. Union cavalry troops under the command of George Stoneman made a series of raids into the region; the 1865 raid for example resulted in the destruction of 150 miles of track and much rolling stock (although I think mostly on the Virginia & Tennessee RR, another supply link running from Lynchburg down to Bristol). Virgil Caine would have been an essential worker for the Confederate cause but not a soldier.

[scabpicker]

@ASL_v2.0

Given how historically inaccurate a straight hearing of the lyrics would be, I’m not sure that I believe him (Levon). Or at least I’m not sure his intent had anything to do with what this Robbie character finally wrote down.

Well, as I said, I don’t know if Robertson even had a position. If it boils down a nice arrangement and a jumbled mess lamenting about Dixie, I can happily change the station. I might as well be listening to Elvis’ American Trilogy, other than it’s a least not a medley.

And well, Levon was perfectly happy to sing the lyrics. You try to convince me he’d be the kind of man who’d back down because he thought the lyrics didn’t give Lee what he thought was his due. I’m not saying you or Levon is incorrect with your interpretation, we all bring our entire lives to the table when we interpret a work of art. Mine’s not great when it comes to this one.

[ASL_v2.0]

@kayT

Is there anyone you do have respect for?

Is the idea that someone might not respect ex-Colonel Lee so perplexing that it calls into question whether they can venerate or respect anyone at all?

[Pavelb1]

I’d make a joke about you all and high horses…but horses arn’t born to be your ‘beast of burden’ and i cant wait to see you carnivores in your reeducation camps in 30 years.

Can you believe people used to enslave other species for FOOD?? Just raise them in cages, slaughter them and eat their flesh off the bones? Monsters. They know better now and they sure as fuck knew better then.

[chela]

So for the past 40 years or so since I first heard the song I always thought it was Virgils wife that was “the very best” the soldiers came through plundered the farm and took his wife.

[kayT]

@ASL_v2.0

@kayT

Is there anyone you do have respect for?

Is the idea that someone might not respect ex-Colonel Lee so perplexing that it calls into question whether they can venerate or respect anyone at all?

No. You seemed to have no respect for the members of the Band either, or some of the people in this thread. I just wondered who or what you do respect. I find myself able to respect some people that I do not agree with, and I wondered if you ever do that.

[Chronos]

[Moderating]

Pavelb1, nothing about that post is appropriate for this thread, this forum, or anywhere on this board.

[Chronos]

[Moderating]
kayT, that’s awfully close to being a personal attack, one that is unsupported by anything in this thread.