But you have yet to explicate why you believe this to be so, or why you arbitrarily draw the line of legitimacy at that particular location. If your argument is that “society functions best” with such a government, you should be able to demonstrate that empirically.
As far as I can see, this statement directly contradicts the claim you make exactly prior to it. If the only legitimate purpose of government is to protect its citizens from enemies, then it follows that it would be illegitimate for a government to build and maintain (non-military) roads.
I thought you claimed you could easily best any “liberal” in a debate, but so far this has been like shooting fish in a barrel for me.
Seriously, I ask again: is there a conservative out there who can provide a serious, reality-based argument against public health care? Anyone?
It’s a reasonless argument. Someone can hit on 18 and get a 3, or play russian roulette and survive. It doesn’t mean it’s a good idea. Plus, those countries suck. Plus, you’re committing the fallacy of adverse selection, by picking countries with socialized healthcare that suck less.
Cuba has it. So did Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union.
I can give it a shot. As an anarchist, I object to the very existence of the State, much less control by the State of essential services. One argument against State-run medical services is that this puts the State in the position of having the power to withdraw medical care on any basis they wish. Compare this to the situation with other necessities of life, such as food and water. The State has some control over the food supply, but a person can, at least in theory, grow their own food, and water falls naturally from the sky. Health care is very different. Even if a person had the will to learn medical skills, it’s not realistic for a person to, for example, perform an appendectomy on hirself.
Furthermore, we see that personal sovereignty is taken from people’s hands when health care is mandated by the State. Innocculations, which often carry very serious health risks, are made mandatory by the State, removing people’s ability to make their own considered choices about their health.
Cite that inoculations ever carry serious health risks to anyone but infants and the elderly? Also, your entire first paragraph applies to greedy insurance companies just as well.
Are you sure? I thought he was that white-robed dude in the big throne pictured in every Chick tract. Rand Rover also seems to think he is That Faceless Guy.
No one in the medical profession, not doctors and not the CDC, says that inoculations are risk-free. The risks are small but present, and the side effects run the range, depending on the vaccine, from paralysis to febrile seizures to death. The argument is that the benefits of inoculation far outweigh the risks. That’s fine, but the choice should be mine to make, not the State’s.
If you want specific citations, here are a couple of links which include statements and statistics regarding the side effects of the flu vaccine (which in this case includes febrile seizures).
Absolutely. I don’t want corporations dictating the terms of health care any more than I want the State doing so. Authoritarian socialism and capitalist monopolies are not the only options available to us.
I just got back in town, having been on a business trip, but I have been following this circus as best I can. So far we have:
Obama wants to kill grandma
Obama wants to kill “special needs” children.
Obama wants to kill Momma if she falls down and breaks her hip.
Today, Obama wants to kill veterans.
Obama is either the Joker, or Hitler or maybe both.
And the morons out there swallow this right up.
This is not honest discussion, this is not honest debate. It is just dishonest fuckwads, inventing outright lies and scaring the shit out of stupid people.
The whole thing is flat out disgusting.
P.T. Barnum once said something to the effect of never underestimating the stupidity of people. I guess he was right.
Remember that it’s only 20 or 30% dishonest fuckwads out there, and that most of the people you are calling stupid are not stupid. They simply let their opinions be swayed by whatever crap makes its way onto the airwaves.
If the Democrats stand firm* and pass a government plan, most of those who have been swayed by the right’s lies will initially bitch, but when the reality comes around and presents itself to them as lower bills for healthcare, they’ll decide that socialized medicine really ROCKS, and never vote for another Republican as long as they live; which will be a long time because they’ll be getting decent healthcare.
There are lots of people out there with real concerns and real questions. We need to be angry with the people who have the nerve to call themselves the news, when they focus on the fringe rather than the real issues. I saw a Democrat today at a town hall saying he’d read the bill and it’s disgusting. Let’s try to focus on the real issues and making some progress. {bound to be imperfect}
I’m going to simplify the argument here, JUST for you. If someone’s child catches smallpox, polio, rabies or The Plague (whatever) just because you want to assert your individuality, I hope you get locked up under whatever law covers it.
The free expression of dissent, whether organized, disorganized, etc. is NOT anti-American—we were founded on it and some of our greatest social rethinks have come out of it. It is perhaps the most American thing a citizen can do. I don’t see the left complaining when MoveOn.org or Code Pink orchestrates protest yet somehow IF these protests have any organized backing they aren’t legitimate? This is part of democracy. Deal with it.
My grandmother lost an older brother (when he was only three) to whooping cough. I’m sure my great-grandmother would have just LOVED Smash’s arguments.
:rolleyes:
Part of the reason we’re seeing so many diseases coming back is because people are refusing to be vaccinated. And all it does is endanger everyone else – the fucking sickos. (Don’t even get me started on antibiotic abuse!)
OK, in a perfect world, people would be talking about real things - economic or budgetary concerns (how do we pay for it), administrative concerns (how to mange this system and who is competent to be the director), and regulatory concerns (how to give it the right amount of authority without giving it too much authority or not enough), that sort of thing.
But we would not have a former governor / former “contender” for the Vice Presidency talking about killing special needs children. I like McCain, but considering the lying IDIOT he had for a running mate (a heartbeat away from the presidency) I’m glad he lost now. We would not have one particular SENATOR talking about killing Grandma and bragging about how he only joined the panel in order to sabotage the deal. We now have yet another talking about killing veterans (the latest twist).
These assholes are not “the fringe”, are they?
There are some silver linings though. Dick Armey got canned, Glenn Beck is starting to lose advertising sponsors, one of the networks (CNN?) has announcd that it no longer will give time to the usual radio talking heads (because they are all the same and are boring), and some Republicans are starting to say enough is enough
Sorry, but you are incorrect. Americans have vigorous debate. Asshole simpletons shriek like spoiled children to cut off debate. No matter how many times you assert that this is democracy, it is still bullshit. You sir have a mouth functionally equivalent to a steer’s ass.
