Next time my boss does or says something I don’t like, I can go to work with a gun on my hip, and a “death to the boss” placard.
I bet that will advance my career (if the security guards even let me near the place). After all, it’s just “discourse”.
I remember a happy day in this land when everyone, rich or poor, could agree that we all hated the insurance companies. When was that, three months ago? What has happened in those three months to cause a noisy fraction of us, by the looks of them often people whose life experience should cause them to particularly hate the current system, middle- and lower-middle-class workers in particular, to come out screaming in support of Big Insurance?
And when he asks you to do something throw a screaming tantrum like a child. They like that. It’s American!
Why not just have surgery to make yourself into a Tightie-Righty instead? You would be far happier. Blissful even. As for me, I could never go that far, cuz:
*“I’d rather have a bottle-in-front-of-me than a …”
*
Yes, but just once it would be nice if the right actually recognized that progressive policies have almost always made their lives better and given this one a shot. I’m fucking tired of watching my side have to win by stealth.
Don’t go for that surgery. The Death Eaters will get you :eek:
Aw, fuck it!!!
It’s Olbermann’s new name for the people who talk about death panels.
So… because you don’t want to catch diseases, you believe others should be forced, against their will, to take the risks associated with inoculation? And before we go around this mulberry bush again, I’ve already provided citations showing that everyone agrees there are risks associated with inoculation. In what way is your selfish wish to force others to risk their lives for your health morally superior to choosing not to be inoculated despite the risks this poses to others?
You really have no idea the damage one disease carrier can do, do you?
Typhoid Mary. Interesting case.
Sorry, this is a situation where the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. I’ve taken inoculations, even knowing the risks. Maybe I just give a shit about someone else once in a while.
You are just a self centered jerk.
Take a measured and educated small risk to protect others, or effectively tell them “fuck you, it’s all about me”. I know what side I stand on.
Everyone =/= You and Jenny McCarthy
Are you fucking retarded? Can you read? I provided links to the fucking CDC website where they list serious risks associated with the flu vaccine. Other vaccines carry risks such as paralysis or fucking death. This is not fucking conspiracy theory, you drooling fucktard, it’s completely mainstream scientific fucking fact. Why the christ am I even wasting my time on you morons? I could say water is wet and there would be a half-dozen SD troglodytes saying I’m full of “woo” and demanding citations in peer-reviewed physics journals none of them are fucking smart enough to read, while giving each other reacharounds and hooting triumphantly like brain-damaged baboons.
Risks small compared to the risks of the diseases they prevent.
Me:
StS:
LOL.
If being an anarchist qualifies you as a conservative, man are you preaching a very strange form of anarchy…
But okay. Actually, I think state-run medical service present a bit of a problem for anarchists, due to economies of scale. (I’m going to assume for this discussion that you’re an anarcho-syndicalist, and not some strange variant of extreme libertarian/national syndicalist.) By that I mean that some very important sorts of medical services need to be administered at a much higher level than the local community. For example, Bob in California needs a new kidney; Jim in Maine has just died in a car accident, and has two fresh kidneys available. How can Bob receive a kidney from Jim without an entity larger than the local community managing the health system?
This doesn’t necessarily make anarchism impossible when it comes to managing health care, but does pose serious challenges. That’s just one example.
In addition, my response to you is: okay, fine. Maybe some day in the very distant future we’ll live in a more decentralized society. But now, today, we live in this imperfect world. And in this world, millions of people have no health care at all, and others are at the mercy of these predatory insurance companies. Honestly, I don’t think many anarchists here (in Sweden) would be against a centralized health system per se. They are more interested in empowering local communities, giving workers more power over the means of production, and that sort of thing. Anyway, you’d have to have a heart of stone to take the position you want millions of people to suffer and die in order to institute a political order that, really, is very, very far from being realized.
(If you want my take on it, by the way, a proper anarchistic response would be to ignore what the government is doing, find a group of like-minded individuals and build a “consumer-owned” insurance company, i.e., an “insurance syndicate.” Direct action, baby!)
Finally, and this is a really important point, you write:
Placing this power in the hands of a local community, instead of the state, does not guarantee that the local community will provide the service. Let’s say we lived in a small community of about 500 people, and among these people was Rand Rover – who, as we know, is an asshole. RR gets a toothache. Maybe 300 hundred of us decide we’d just as soon let him suffer, because we find him to be an insufferable ass? Well, looks like RR is out of luck. In other words – and I know this leads on to a much larger discussion, really, but just to explain myself a bit – I’m not sure why anarchists believe that devolving power to a local level will somehow immunize it from the abuses we see at a national level.
Honestly, in practice, most of the anarchists I knew personally were people with a strange duality; they had all the “morally correct” political convictions, but treated people around them like complete shit. Mostly. And this is a problem that runs through the anarchist movement as whole, I suspect; Kropotkin, for example, was famously domineering and dogmatic in his private life, despite his anarchistic ideals.
Because you’re a violence threatening troll who is here to masturbate your ego and talk about how very cool and anti-authoritarian you are due to some strange case of arrested development that has you acting as a perpetual teenager, and so you deliberately found a website that you knew would react negatively to your bullshit and allow you to start numerous fights from a position of smarmy stupidity?
What do I win?
Oh, and moron? Nobody is disputing that vaccinations carry certain incredibly unlikely risks with them. Of course, as pointed out (and you didn’t understand), the risks of the diseases are much, much greater and by refusing to inoculate yourself or your children, you are directly helping to put people’s lives in jeopardy. While you certainly are a woo spouting idiot who doesn’t understand reason, logic, epistemology or science, here you are just revealing yourself as a brutally inconsiderate asshole with no social virtue who would gladly cause the horrifying deaths of millions since you’re a mental teenager engaged in continued rebellion against [del]daddy[/del] The State.
Now now, FinnAgain.
Don’t mince words. Tell us what you really think.
See, the thing is, Smashy has actually done the impossible and got me momentarily into the position of defending Rand Rover. While I understand some of RR’s points, and agree with a few (not many, but a few), that fact that he’s such a nasty bastard just leaves me unable to speak up in support for him. But to see some idiot gleefully threatening violence when backed up by his “comrades” and demanding (in the cause of individual freedom, natch) that we go back to the age of polio? Gah.
Now, it doesn’t help that anarchism is a rather silly philosophy, much like communism. Sure, it works well enough on a small enough level where everybody can voluntarily join up, like kibutzim with communism, but as a system able to organize interstate roads, international laws, health care, education, monetary policy, whatever… it just sucks. I wouldn’t even mind discussing it a bit if the guy who’s advocating it here wasn’t such a relentless asshole, unstable in his demeanor, violent in his rhetoric, hypocritical in his temper tantrums (he likes to insult fat people and talk about sharing his property while it looks like instead of sharing food with homeless people, he ate a few of them), puerile in his ego-stroking (he uses the letter K a lot to show how anti-authority he is), etc…
He’s a stupid, dangerous nutter who likes to hint (or brag) about how he and his are ready, willing, and perhaps eager to engage in actual violence. And he’s evidently here, on a webiste he can not stop talking about hating, in order to pick fights, stroke his ego, and toot his own horn while talking about how very badass and dangerous he (and his “comrades”) are.
The board doesn’t need an unhinged troll to argue for a fringe political philosophy, there are plenty of sane people who’ll do that.
Meanwhile, if I recall correctly, you are yourself a former anarchist but current labor union organizer/rep in Sweden? If so, you deserve congratulations on actually making a difference and working to improve people’s lives. Part of what’s so annoying is that, like Rand (and blind squirrels and stopped clocks), Smashy has a valid point every now and again… it’s just that he managed to argue them in the dumbest and most obnoxious way possible. The chances of intelligent, rational debate plummet when Smashy starts his rhetorical bomb chucking in almost any thread (often, rhetorical bomb chucking about how cool he is that he might just go and engage in some actual bomb chucking.)
Given the severity of some diseases, and the rate at which they spread (even faster now with air travel), the choice is NOT yours to make, or at least should not be. My parents and relatives used to talk about the Pandemic of 1918.
*From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The 1918 flu pandemic (commonly referred to as the Spanish flu) was an influenza pandemic that spread to nearly every part of the world. It was caused by an unusually virulent and deadly influenza A virus strain of subtype H1N1. Historical and epidemiological data are inadequate to identify the geographic origin of the virus.[1] Most of its victims were healthy young adults, in contrast to most influenza outbreaks which predominantly affect juvenile, elderly, or otherwise weakened patients. The flu pandemic has also been implicated in the sudden outbreak of encephalitis lethargica in the 1920s.[2]
The pandemic lasted from March 1918 to June 1920 ,[3] spreading even to the Arctic and remote Pacific islands. It is estimated that anywhere from 50 to 100 million people were killed worldwide.[4][5] [6][7][8] An estimated 500 million people, one third of the world’s population (approximately 1.6 billion at the time), became infected.[5]
The global mortality rate from the 1918/1919 pandemic is not known, but it is estimated that 10% to 20% of those who were infected died. With about a third of the world population infected, this case-fatality ratio means that 3% to 6% of the entire global population died.[11] Influenza may have killed as many as 25 million in its first 25 weeks. Older estimates say it killed 40–50 million people[4] while current estimates say 50 million to 100 million people worldwide were killed.[12] This pandemic has been described as “the greatest medical holocaust in history” and may have killed more people than the Black Death.[13]*
You are an idiot. Your ideas are potentially dangerous. Maybe you should sit down and let the grown ups take care of things for you, because you are nothing more than a damn two year old yelling NO NO NO.
Yes, I can read. Unlike you, I can also perform simple sums. That’s how I was able to figure out that the risks of complications associated with vaccinations are a million times smaller than the risks of not being vaccinated.
Now run along. Don’t you have some productive members of society to bother on their way to work?
See, this is a perfect example of what I complain about constantly around here. See if you can follow the bouncing ball. Someone asked if there was anyone who could give a rational objection to State-run universal health care. I could, and did, with a libertarian argument about personal autonomy, and using the example of forced vaccinations as an example of the State compelling people to take risks with their lives “for the greater good” as defined by the State.
Rather than address the substance of the argument, people (with the exception of Mr. Svinlesha) started hooting and hollering and shrieking, claiming that I’m some kind of conspiracy-theory nutjob for believing that vaccinations have any health risks associated with them. When I provided proof – from the CDC no less – that vaccinations do indeed carry very serious health risks, people picked up the goalposts and started jogging around the field. Now the claim is that it’s axiomatic that the State has a right to force you to do anything they wish as long as, in their view, it serves the greater good. And that if I don’t agree with this, I’m a dangerous, stupid nutjob who should be locked up and beaten with sticks.
Let me state this again: People made it very clear that there were NO health risks associated with vaccinations, and that anyone who believes there are is some kind of whackjob nutcase. When I showed that there are, in fact, health risks – very serious ones – associated with vaccinations, no one admitted they were wrong. No one said, “Gosh, maybe it was wrong to call you a conspiracy nut for believing something which is scientific fact that anyone could have confirmed with a 10 second Google search.” No, the reaction was to immediately pick up the goalposts and pretend you meant something different all along.
None of you (again, with the exception of Mr. Svinlesha) has any intention of arguing a position in good faith. You’re no different than the dipshits outside the town hall meetings. All you want to do is screech and shake the branches until you’ve driven away the strange monkey and you can go back to sucking each other off and writing Mythbusters slash pr0n.