If I was biased, I would have proclaimed Braun’s innocence months ago. I was waiting to hear the facts of the story before I made up my mind, so no, I am not biased.
I am upset with Bud Selig’s used-car-salesman hard sell, though.
Multiple seals would not prevent access with a syringe, with the pinhole closed with super-glue. And that is just off the top of my head. I’m sure a determined tamperer has many ways of getting around seals . . . . . which is why the chain of custody is so very very important.
I’m going to reread this post with the Mission: Impossible theme music playing, because without it it sounds ridiculous.
Edit: Nope. Still pretty silly.
I agree the chain of custody is important, and if it was violated this badly I can even see why the suspension was thrown out. Braun’s team is not arguing the sample was tampered with, so we don’t need to waste our time imagining fantasy spy movie scenarios. It doesn’t say much about Braun’s guilt or innocence, though, and Braun seems to realized the public would not be impressed by a challenge based on the fact that the test should’ve been mailed sooner. I assume that’s why he did imply in his press conference that maybe there was tampering. That didn’t do much to convince me of his integrity here.
Lets imagine you took a drug test. Lets also posit that you did not ingest anything illegal in any way, shape, or form - knowingly or unknowingly. The drug test comes back positive. You ask for DNA to be taken to see if the sample is yours and are summarily rebuffed. The testing procedure is supposed to be completely confidential, but there is a leak and your results are outed. People with absolutely no knowledge of the facts are calling you a cheater.
You find out that there were 44 hours in which the sample was not in a clear chain of custody. You find out that the sample could have been Fed Exed multiple times and was not. The world calls you a cheater, but you know you are innocent. You have no way of getting the sample packaging back to check for tampering.
Please, Marley23, tell me how you defend yourself.
Maintaining the integrity of the chain of custody is vital, as it eliminates doubt as to the reliability of the evidence. The players bargained for the procedures so that the process would be fair. It’s a perfectly legit avenue of challenge for Braun. And it doesn’t bother me that Braun centered his challenge on the violation of the procedures. Just as a lawsuit or prosecution can be defeated because the statute of limitations has expired, without responding to the merits of the claim, Braun is under no obligation to raise every conceivable challenge he can.
Which is not to say you can’t personally conclude that he’s a doper. You’re certainly entitled to your opinions. But the way he chose to attack MLB’s ruling, by itself, doesn’t make me think any less of him.
Mhmm. I agree Braun’s in a difficult position publicly and you can argue about how unfair that is, but I’m not very interested in the subject. Positive results or not, for years baseball players have been dealing with the fact that it’s hard to prove you’re clean. Before I accept that Braun didn’t do anything wrong, I’d like to see scientific evidence that his results could have been produced without any cheating on his part. Arguing about super spies and secret agents who could have tampered with the results doesn’t convince me because Braun’s people didn’t argue the sample was tampered with. It is perhaps true the sample was not dealt with the way it was supposed to be, and while following procedure is very important, it doesn’t mean that any failure to follow procedure magically produces a positive test result. If someone can demonstrate that leaving the sample alone for that amount of time could have skewed the results, I’ll accept that the result is unreliable. Absent that, it sounds like he failed the test and got lucky the testing service blew it.
[MODERATING]
The subject of the thread is Major League Baseball, and in this part of it, Ryan Braun. Please remember that it is NOT the personal attributes of other SDMB posters.
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The 44 hours is the secondary reason I have for doubting the whole process.
The first reason is that Braun, immediately after getting the results, asked MLB for a DNA comparison and was summarily rebuffed. This is just classic Bud Selig how-dare-you-question-my-authoritaaa. Selig is, was, and always will be concerned with the image of MLB and its testing process. The actual fairness or accuracy of the program is always secondary.
Selig has always been an ‘image’ guy, a PR guy, a used car salesman. There were decades when the Brewers were going nowhere fast, but all Bud cared about was: "But don’t forget, I got the team from Seattle and brought the the team to Milwaukee. Year after year it was “Don’t look behind the curtain, I, THE GREAT SELIG, SAVED BASEBALL FOR MILWAUKEE!”
If Selig cared one bit about the actual facts, why didn’t he allow a DNA comparison?
Because MLB didn’t have to do a DNA comparison, which is why Braun’s attorney made the offer in the first place. If MLB says no, Braun can pretend they’re hiding something. If MLB says yes and the DNA comparison results say it’s an X% match, Braun hasn’t lost anything and can even spin it as “why would I suggest this if I knew I was guilty.” And if they can’t confidently match it for whatever reason, Braun can go nuts with it. Trial tactics 101. Give me a DNA test. Give me a lie detector test. Run a statistical regression. Release all the test results publicly. What are you afraid of? And then MLB is playing some kind of power game when they say no thanks.
There’s no provision for a comparison in the bargaining agreement. If that agreement is so sacrosanct that the difference between “ASAP” and “when they open on Monday” is the difference between a 50 day suspension and nothing, which I think is fine, then you can’t also turn around and argue that MLB’s failure to go outside the terms of the agreement to prove his guilt is evidence of anything. It’s exactly the sort of defense a guilty person needs to distract from the presence of, for instance, synthetic testosterone in his sample that he isn’t disputing, only in this case it’s the reasonable doubt of the public that he’s working on.
I’m generally extremely pro-player and pro-employee, but it’s preposterous that there would be an MLB conspiracy against Ryan Braun. On the one hand, Bud Selig only cares about the image of the league. On the other, he’s overseeing such a ham-handed railroad operation against Ryan Braun that basic collection procedures were botched and they lost the appeal. And it’s in the best interest of the league to tarnish the reputation of its young Midwestern superstar why, exactly?
Beyond the DNA being a red herring and having little to do with this case, can you even cite it for us? I never even heard this bit until reading it just now.
44 hours is not out of the norm for testing, if they were in a town that actually did have no nearby Fedex locations it can easily be this long of a time on a Saturday. So the 44 hours part is not an real argument, it is a side issue that means nothing. He got off on the fact that the lawyer did a very good job of finding out there were Fedex places the collector could have gotten the sample to instead of waiting until Monday. That is all that was proven, that the collector needs an iPhone 4S with Siri. 
Braun has not proven his innocence just that a good lawyer found a hole in the procedure being used.
There are at least some reports that is in fact what the defense did. They showed how a test could produce results similar to Braun’s. How true that is I don’t know, but given the independent arbitrator found the defense compelling I’m willing to give Braun the benefit of the doubt.
Every report I saw came down to the Fedex drop off. As pointed out above, Braun’s legal team figure out what the collector did wrong and the arbitrator agreed that based on that Braun could not be suspended, not that he did not test positive.
Now Braun should not be suspended, but at this point he should be booed.
So its OK for MLB to not allow an easily accomplished DNA test because its not in the CBA, but at the same time its OK to judge and smear Braun because his attorney finds the best possible defense to get the ruling overturned? If Braun can’t use the rules to his best effect, than MLB shouldn’t get that pass either. Why no investigation into where the leak came from?
Also - I am not claiming any kind of Selig-generated conspiracy. I am claiming the usual Selig ineptitude (in that he is more concerned with the image of the process than with the actual facts of the process) and his Cartman-like arrogance.
I don’t think Selig, or anyone from MLB heightened the testosterone in the sample, but someone or something did. Any process that allows a sample to be delivered 43 hours after it could have been is flawed.
Can you even link to where this DNA claim is being made? It would help.
They weren’t in a town that did not have nearby Fedex locations. There are no cities with major league baseball teams where this situation exists.
The DNA thing is mentioned in Braun’s statement, which I linked to in post #524.
According to the appeals process, MLB did not prove Braun’s guilt.
What Exit? - how would you prove your innocence in the same situation?
I linked to the jsonline blog that contained Braun’s statement in post 524.
So the only proof of this DNA request is in Braun’s statement. That sways me very little then. Did he mention a formal letter of request or anything else.
If I were innocent? Well I guess I would be screwed but it still appears very unlikely to me that he was innocent. The test is extremely accurate and the 44 hours does not indicate an change in the sample’s reliability. He got lucky his lawyer found a technicality. I would say outside of Brewers’ fan he has little chance to prove his innocence though. Especially as it seems very unlikely.
Personally I cannot understand why you find his innocence so likely. Plenty of players have cheated with lots of means. In some cases it was a surprise and in many it was not. I know A-Rod was a surprise but at least he owned up to it. Clemens, Giambi, Manny & Ortiz were not even a mild surprise to me. But Pettitte was a big shock, but again, he admitted to it at least and moved on. It is the ones like Clemens, Big Mac, Palmiero and now Braun I have the least respect for.
**That link does not even have the word DNA on the page. **
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/140333483.html
Damn, I could have sworn that was in there. I apologize for my inaccuracy.
Here is another link. They don’t talk about DNA here either, but provide a few more details, including the name of the collector:
www.jsonline.com/sports/brewers/Braun_live22412-140317723.html
Does anyone know the other dates Braun was tested in 2011? I cant find them and I remember thinking he was tested right before the postseason. IOW, that he may have thought the odds were good that he wouldn’t be tested again soon. I also wonder if MLB had suspicions about him.