The Official MLB Offseason Thread

The Raleigh-Durham-Cary MSA has 1,130,490 people (2010). Charlotte MSA has 1,758,038.

By comparison, my semi-joking proposal of Philly (which is the 5th largest MSA in the US, after three with 2 teams and Dallas-FW) has 5,965,343 - half of which would beat either of these options.

The SF-Oak-SJ MSA is 4,335,391.

Really the best option is a third team in NYC (18,897,109 people in the MSA). One third of that market is still about the size of all of Chicagoland. But I still like Philly just for the historical reasons.

Even Cincy metro area has 2,130,151. As I recall that is the smallest baseball market currently.

NYC Metro makes the most sense in terms of numbers but will apparently never happen. That and the baseball fans in this market are pretty strongly aligned to their teams. I’m not sure a third team would pick up and fans. Let’s say they used Newark. The Newark is overwhelmingly Yankee fans with plenty of easy access to Yankee stadium. The local team would have a tough time drawing in new fans and would probably pull mostly away from the smaller pool of Mets fans. Especially currently with the Mets dysfunctional. Now if the Yanks went into another late 60s/80s style slump maybe they could squeeze in a new team and draw away some of the more casual fans, but again the Yankees & Mets fans tend to be multi-generational.

Portland’s Metro Pophttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_United_States_Metropolitan_Statistical_Areas is: 2,226,009. A little bigger then Cincy.
Sacremento is a good choice at 2,149,127. Also still within travel range for many of the A’s existing fans. So if feasible, probably the best choice.

Pretty sure it’s actually Milwaukee (1,555,908). The NL Central is just full of small(ish) markets.

Certainly true, as far as it goes. But it doesn’t really need a very large percentage to beat out places like the Carolinas or Portland. 10% of the NYC MSA is as big as those markets. And I’d have to think that the broadcast deals would be higher too.

Obviously it’ll never happen, but it probably should. Hell, NYC should really have 4 teams, two in each league.

You’re right, Milwaukee is only 1,555,908 at 39th overall. I also overlooked KC as the second smallest.

The A’s are not going to move to a city that already has a team. The whole reason they might have to move further than San Jose is that the Giants don’t want more competition, and no other owner in the league is going to want that either even if the market could theoretically support it.

What Exit:

Ironically, it’s because the A’s gave it to them so they could potentially pursue a favorable stadium deal with San Jose. But the Giants, having built a solid San Jose fanbase, are disinclined to return the favor.

I would think that this year showed that the Rays and Yankees resting their players didn’t make any difference from 2010; they still both lost to the Rangers. Not sure why this year they had to throw in another wild card team.

I personally think it would be awesome if the A’s moved here in Portland, but we lost our AAA team a few seasons ago when we couldn’t find a place to build a stadium. We renovated the old stadium to soccer-only so we could get an MLS team. The Portland Beavers had been around since the early 1900s.

The largest North American metro areas without a baseball team, not counting “metro” areas that are in fact part of another one, like Riverside-Ontario or San Jose;

  1. Montreal, 3,800,000
  2. Vancouver, 2,300,000
  3. Portland, 2,200,000
  4. Sacramento, 2,100,000
  5. San Antonio, 2,100,000
  6. Orlando, 2,100,000
  7. Las Vegas, 1,900,000
  8. Columbus, OH, 1,800,000
  9. Charlotte, Indianapolis, and Austin, all around 1,700,000

Even if you found a happy owner with stadim money a lot of these are problematic as a relocation spot. Montreal is the only one above the MLB average and, for obvious reasons, that market was poisoned by experience and wouldn’t give a nickel for a new stadium, so forget it. Vancouver or Portland might be a go, they’re big enough with the right owner.

What’s striking about looking at population numbers, though, is how obvious it is that the best spot for a relocated team is New York City. The baseball teams should go to where the baseball fans are. New York is just so enormous, it’s rich, and it’s got baseball on the brain; even with the market dominance of the Yankees and Mets, there’s no a doubt in my mind a third team would do well there. The New Jersey or Brooklyn A’s would, I believe, do just fine.

I realize people are sometimes like “well, New York already has baseball, screw them.” But that’s not how it works. There are EIGHTEEN MILLION people in that metro area, more than all but 3 entire states, excluding NY itself. The fans are there, and they’re underserved; as it is it’s hard to get decent, affordable tickets to a Yankees game. Moving the A’s to New York City would make sense for precisely the same reason moving the Phoenix Coyotes to Toronto would make sense; while you have fewer city names in your league, you’re actually serving more fans.

I mean, the Japanese League has five of 12 teams in the Tokyo-Yokohama metroplex, because it just makes sense. That’s where the baseball fans are and where the corporate cash is. They don’t have a team on Skokaku out of a sense of geographical fairness because there’s just not enough people there to merit it, and as it is the one team on Hokkaido is perpetually short of money; it’s sort of the Montreal Expos of NPB. (They’re the ones who sold Yu Darvish; they simply needed the money.) The English Premier LEagues has five teams in London, because that’s where the fans are.

It might seem “unfair” to cities to have no team in Oakland but three teams in New York, but cities don’t support teams. Fans do, and you’ve got to find the fans.

Who knows; a deep pocketed owner could make a team work in Portland, Vancouver, or Austin, I dunno. I know I’d be likelier to invest in NYC.

Conversely, SF-Oakland is a questionable location for two teams; it’s certainly not small, but it’s not a huge metro area. Even if you account for the wealth there, and include San Jose, it’s no bigger a market than Toronto or Houston, two cities nobody thinks need a second team.

A’s in NJ would at least do really well for Yankee games as it is a really big hit to go to a Yankee game now from Jersey. Tolls are up, train fairs are up, parking went up outrageously and all the good and fairly good seats got very expensive. When I was going to 12+ per year, I could still get fairly good seats at a reasonable price and before this long run, I could shoot up on Tuesday night with some friends split maybe $20 for gas, tolls & parking and we would by field level seats on arrival for $22 unless we lucked into someone dumping box seats for a good price.

If you live in the city, the nosebleeds and bleachers are still a wonderful bargain but the price and tougher time getting into and out of the new stadium has made me a marginal attender of games.

I imagine they would start getting some fans of their own, but they really would be second class citizens compared to the Yanks. The Met fans complain of this now and they are NL. I can’t imagine how much worse it would be for the A’s.
I doubt any Philly A’s fans are left as they departed so long ago. But maybe somewhere a little more central Jersey like near Rutgers could lure fans from all over NJ & Philly and some from NYC itself. Who knows. But they would try to put it in Newark or Secaucus (where Giants & Jets play football).

How would realignment work with an AL West team moving to the east coast? Move the Blue Jays over to the Central, move the Royals to the West, and bump the As to the East?

East
Yankees
Red Sox
Rays
Orioles
As

Central
White Sox
Tigers
Indians
Blue Jays
Twins

West
Angels
Rangers
Mariners
Royals

Also Astros in the West ( :spit: )

The difference between London or Tokyo having five teams vs. NYC having three is that all of Japan is about the size of Montana and the UK is the size of Michigan. If your city doesn’t have a team, it’s much easier for the average Brit or Japanese person to still go see a game. As a Portlander, Seattle, at about 170 miles away, is the nearest MLB team.

The only two men near Portland with the pocketbooks to own an MLB team are probably Paul Allen and Phil Knight. Allen already owns NBA and NFL teams. He’s tried to bring the NHL to PDX, but he’s simply not a baseball fan. Besides “owning” the University of Oregon Ducks, Knight doesn’t want to own any pro teams because it might interfere with his Nike empire.

RickJay:

But did these situations (the multitude of teams in Tokyo or London) arise by new teams being planted inside other teams’ dedicated fan/media base, or did the teams pop up pretty much simultaneously? And especially if they did so prior to the modern media market, which forms most of the revenue source for baseball, and won’t pay big bucks to an upstart team in Yankees-Mets territory?

The only way a third team in the NYC area can conceivably get by is a) base itself in NJ and hope that NJ fans will embrace a local identity - it works for the Devils, but not so much for the Nets, and the Giants and Jets still refer to themselves as “New York”, so I don’t know how well it would work, or b) by acting as the “budget alternative” to a Yankee game, but then, what kind of product could they possibly put on the field?

The desire to put teams into uncharted territory is less out of a sense of “geographical fairness” than out of a sense that the fans in NYC are already “reached” and the revenue from them is effectively maximized. You have the potential to sell an additional 40,000 tickets per game if you put a team in New Jersey, but the Cable TV subscribers are already watching Major League Baseball, the merchandise is already selling, etc. Put a team in Tennessee, and you’ll get a new local TV deal - based on a state-wide subscriber base that isn’t yet tuning in, and people buying MLB merchandise who weren’t previously, PLUS fannies in the seats.

Munch: You are forgetting that the Astros are moving to the AL, but just slide them into the West and that’s probably how it would be realigned, yes.

That’s a good point, but doesn’t do much to recommend Portland over a lot of places, like Austin or Vancouver or - and of course it doesn’t do much to recommend Oakland at all.

I appreciate the notion of geographic coverage, but attempting to run a sports league based on that just doesn’t work, and I could cite a bazillion examples. The North American model works best when you put teams where they can maximize their ability to draw fans and make money. (Regrettably that often involved looting the taxpayer for stadium money.)

Sort of a side note, but Lenny Dykstra has been sentenced to three years in jail for grand theft auto (providing fraudulent information so he and two friends could lease some cars) and for getting rid of $400,000 in his own property after filing for bankruptcy protection. He was also caught with HGH, cocaine, and Ecstasy, but those charges were dropped as part of a plea deal. He tried and failed to withdraw that plea. In a separate case he’s facing charges of indecent exposure. What a mess.

Guess who’s back? Andy Pettitte to attempt a comeback.

What the fuck?

He’s not really that old, and certainly not the first guy to unretire like that.

7 starters again. Any team in need of a cheap starter, you can get Garcia for an ‘A’ level prospect at this point I would guess.

This will push Phil Hughes and Michael Pineda. It is insane to think that Hughes could end up in the bullpen or Pineda in AAA.