I wouldn’t be surprised if Israel has spied on The US on occassion. Frankly, I’d be dissapointed if I learned that the US doesn’t spy on Israel.
In the modern world, everyone spies on everyone else.
Excuse me, but you seem somewhat unaware that Gaza and the Left Bank are not part of Israel. They are territories occupied by Israel and the inhabitants are rightly unhappy with the situation. And for the current uprising, it was provoked by Ariel Sharon visiting the mosque that you also seem to think is in Israel. It’s not. That part of Jerusalem is also occupied territory. And BTW It is also one of the holiest site in moslem history as in christian.
That’s like saying Texas isn’t part of the U.S. Except it was won in a war and the U.S. has kept it. Gaza and the Jordan River’s West Bank were won in a war in which the surrounding Arab nations attacked Israel.
Now the Israelis are looking at returning chunks for potential peace. Hasn’t worked yet. Just ask Arafat who refused to compromise when the last Israeli govt conceeded to 90+% of his demands.
As for Sharon’s visit to a mosque… so what? Pay attention here. We’re talking about a non-violent visit of a head of state to a church. Granted, I think Sharon was an idiot for doing it, but I mean really… to use that as a reason for a massive uprising? He didn’t graffitti the walls or anything, he just VISITED!
And lastly, it may be a holy site to Chrisitians and Moslems, too… but it’s in Israeli controlled territory, even if you won’t call it part of Israel. It was also a holy site in Judaism long before it became one for the other religions. (How many times is Jerusalem mentioned in the Koran? Is it twice? Compare that to the Jewish bible.) And again, if Mecca was a holy site to the same three religions, and there was a Jewish or Christian house of worship on the site, there’s no doubt the Saudis would have torn it down long and ago and replaced it with a mosque. The Israelis haven’t done that.
The one sentence version being a quote I once heard, which I fully believe. If the Arab nations put down their weapons, there would be peace in the Middle East. If the Israelis put down their weapons, they would be massacred.
Off topic a bit, but it’s just more evidence of why I’m perfectly ok with the only rational gov’t in the region having nuclear weapons. And no, I’m not Israeli or Jewish. Just someone who greatly favors global democracy over Islamic regimes.
Donald Rumsfeld gave the answer about 6 weeks in a news conference. An Arab reporter asked him exactly the same question as the OP.
And Rumsfeld replied " You already know the answer to that. Israel has arranged things in such a way that they dont get thrown into the sea"
It’s also worth pointing out that Israel is the only country in the Middle East never to have had a:[list=A]
[li] revolution[/li][li]civil war[/li][li]Hi, Sitt OpalCat :)[/li][li] palace uprising[/li][li]military coup[/li][li] attempt at any of the above.[/li][li]Or anything else, other than an election.[/li][/list]
In the Global Village, Atom Bombs in the hands of your neighbors are a chancy thing. If your neighbors get murdered & their houses siezed by bandits & wack-jobs frequently, you get all nervous.
Arabic nations will have nuclear weapons. Islamic nations will have nuclear weapons. Ultimately, given enough time, any nation or faction that wants them will acquire nuclear weapons.
A foreign policy based on the premise that we can stop nuclear proliferation is an ostrich policy.
The important questions are what we are doing, and what should be be doing, to make the world a less dangerous one in which for nuclear proliferation to continue.
(Right at the moment, the discrepancy between the answers to those questions kinda sucks)
You are correct, Asteroide. I don’t know what I was thinking.
I’ll grant you the Saddam Hussein isn’t a Muslim extremist himself. I doubt that he believes in anything outside himself. But he has used Muslim fanaticism that exists in his country for his own purposes.
I didn’t mean to suggest that Israel is not a Jewish state. But it is a Jewish state in the same sense that most Americans consider the US to be a Christian one (often adding insincerely the prefix “Judeo-”). Of course the government of Israel seeks to advance Jewish interests, but I doubt that the Torah is written into it’s constitution any more than the New Testament is written into ours. That’s what I meant by secular.
I think acquiescence is a better word than support. Once the US used a nuclear bomb in Japan the genie was pretty much out of the bottle. It was inevitable that other nations would acquire nukes. There was little America could do about that but delay.
I don’t know whether they have acknowledged them officially, but I seem to remember reading about Israeli nuclear tests in the Negev many years ago. With or without an official announcement, it’s to Israel’s advantage that it’s neighbors believe it has them.
As to my memory, though, you’ve already pointed out that it’s faulty. I can’t disagree.
By choosing dates very carefully, the same can be said of any country.
I would say that the lead-up to independence certainly could count as a revolution. And if the 1948 unpleasantness does not include a civil war than our definitions of a civil war don’t match.
And I definitely need a site about the lack of OpalCat’s
D’oh: site = cite
In what way(s) for example?
Well, you’re right, I didn’t express myself as well as I should have. I’m talking about the world post 9/11, for one thing, and the Middle East in particular, though there are other nations worth considering. At any rate, the Bush mandate these days seems to be the prevention of nuclear proliferation by any and all means in the Muslim world. That much is pretty clear. What about the world in general?
Let’s put it this way: Both Libya and Iran, clearly actively pursuing nuclear weapons programmes, have capitulated to the clear threat of sanctions or even invasion, and have given up their bids for nukes (at least for now). I doubt Syria would even dream of it, at this point. No. Korea? They seem undeterrred. Are we putting as much pressure on them as, say, Iran and Libya? And, how would we be dealing with Pakistan’s nukes if Pakistan had not chosen to support us in the War Against Terror? I suspect we might be putting pressure on them to disarm.
“The Lord’s our shepherd
Says the Psalm
But just in case…
We better get a bomb!”
“Who’s Next” - Tom Lehrer
** MMI** – I misspoke when I refered to “revolution”.
I apologize. It was not my intention to argue that particular point.
I wonder why North Korea is not considered a problem any more.
At one time we were quite intense on sabre-rattling, and now it’s all soft sell diplomacy.
Because the last thing we need is a war on a THIRD front while we’re stuck in Iraq and Afghanistan. Besides, if we hit N Korea too hard, they can nuke our allies in S Korea. Not good.
Understood. And I am certainly not going to argue that there is not a qualitative difference between Israel’s government and stability and those of it’s neighbors.
Israel is occupying Paris? :eek:
Woah, when did Turkey and Egypt up and move to South America? I need to start watching CNN more O_o
Ooh, does this mean that Iraq can have nukes once we Americanize it?
Yea, rebellions usually work that way.
I think that has more to do with “not wanting to start wars to the death with every country in the region.” When there are millions of violent Jews surrounding Mecca, I don’t think the Saudis would be in much position to protest.
That’s the funniest thing I’ve heard all day. Well, almost.
Funny, I thought their policy was “kill the bastards trying to kill us.” Israel got taken over by hippies? Was that before or after the ME states started moving to South America?
Turkey is a shining example of possibilities. Jews and Muslims have been living there together peacefully for quite some time. it’s one of the reasons there were terrorist attacks there this year, because other Islamic nations are not happy the the Jews are tolerated there.
Also, notice we’re not threatening to bomb Eqypt any time soon. Though their peace treaty was pretty much forced after they tried (and failed at) an unprovoked attack against Israel.
Your point? Peace and prosperity is bad? Arabs had full rights to work, live, learn, travel. Jews and Arabs were in business together. What’s the problem? Your sarcasm is absurd there.
No, I think it has to do with the Jews not being a people bent on the destruction of Islam. It’s the only one of the three religions in the area to say the other two religions are good people who can go to heaven. They have no desire to convert their neighbors or turn the entire world into an extremist regime (which is the public goal of groups like al qaeda).
Again, name the last time Israelis committed terrorist acts in… Europe? Africa? the U.S.?
No, that’s the current means to defend themselves against an army that sends children with bombs out to massacre civilians.
Luckily, the situation isn’t what it seems you’d prefer: Israel annihilated and the Arab states that hate Western society armed to the teeth with long range nuclear weapons.
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/world/DailyNews/economicspying010305.html
So can France be trusted with nukes?