We make less and less. Remember textiles. Tooling and manufacturing are moving. Auto manufacturing is going every day. Design ,manufacture and all its support are moving abroad. These industries have a multiplier effect. Support industries,restaurants,shows and bars all suffer when the work is gone. When you see a layoff it is just the tip of a much bigger decrease…
What is a nation without an industrial base.? Ford announced it is brooming 12 percent of its work force that is left. GM announced another 9000 layoffs.
American Axle an auto supplier just took a pay cut (after a strike0 that puts new production rates at 10 bucks an hour. A little better than beginning fast food worker.
There is nothing cyclical about whats happening. It is a new world that follows cheap labor where ever it leads. It chases lack of environmental and pollution regulation.
The mantra that we don’t make anything anymore depends what field you are in. I have seen Detroit and its surrounding environment get slaughtered the last few years. It will not recover.
The chart that I just posted seems to indicate that you are in fact making more and more. Do you have some evidence to dispute this?
So, the OP asserted that another problem with outsourcing was that we were reducing our R&D spending, and making fewer things at home.
So far, we have discovered that we aren’t making less and less, that overall manufacturing is not declining in the U.S., and that R&D spending is growing.
That may have been the biggest misfire of an OP I’ve seen for a while.
Here’s the problem with what you just did, you linked to a union website. The bill you’re talking about, the American Jobs Creation Act of 2004–became law four years ago. Yet you’ve only summoned outrage just now?
No, I think it much more likely you were speaking in a non-authoritative manner and had to desperately google up some AFL-CIO opinion piece on the bill.
Now, I won’t say whether this act, passed four years ago, was good or bad. I don’t know because I’ve yet to hear about it from an unbiased source. In my own research, I don’t even see it mentioned on any mainstream news outlets–that suggests to me it wasn’t in fact, very big news back when it happened.
I may get around to reading the text of the legislation at some point–but either way, in response to a request for an unbiased cite you’ve given us a union website opinion on legislation. That’s not unbiased at all.
I could counter with the White House’s page on this bill–which talks it up as a great thing that creates American jobs–but I recognize that the White House which sponsored and supported the bill is not an unbiased source on it.
Finally, you’ve again ignored the request that you put forth an argument of your own. Is your argument simply, “The American Jobs Creation Act of 2004 is bad, it should be rescinded?” If so, why didn’t you just make that argument at the beginning of the thread? Or do you have some actual solutions or ideas as to how to “fix” this grievous problem of “outsourcing industry?”
It’s fine if you just want to complain–but complaining without any constructive exchange of ideas isn’t a debate, in my opinion.
The same source, but over the past 40 years. IME many people seem to believe that the 50’s-early 70’s were the golden era of US manufacturing (1973 marks the end), so any cite that doesn’t reference these years might be considered meaningless. The plot also shows that US industrial output excluding high-technology industries is as high now as it has ever been.
Define industrial . We do not make computers,tvs, machine tools and auto manufacturing and support are leaving .
I linked top several sites. If you gius were not in a coma during 20oo ,2002,2004,2006 elections you may have heard discussion about tax breaks for off shoring jobs. .
I think not. YOU define what ‘industrial’ means to you. Not a drive by link from The Bumble Bee or some other such site…what do you, gonzomax define as industrial? What is the definition important.
I think at this point that I at least am done with you unless you actually start to at least go through the motions of actually debating.
Assuming this is true (some of it is true, some of it is exaggeration…you simply assert it though as if it’s fact without a cite I note…here is a clue though. You say we do not make any of those things…I can provide cites that in fact some computers, TV’s, machine tools and auto’s are still manufactured in the US…and that some support jobs are staying here, not leaving. So…perhaps look up the word ‘hyperbole’ some time, ehe?), so what? What does it mean? You drop this breathlessly into the thread as if it were meaningful. WHY do you think it’s meaningful? Does the US have to be a manufacturing leader to have a strong economy? Do we need technical support jobs to be an economic powerhouse? What are the actual percentages that support type jobs have been outsourced…and what is the actual effect on our economy?
And yet you chose to link to biased sites instead of the requested MSM type sites. You chose to do another drive by link instead of linking and citing the sections you thought relevant and then making an argument of your own…or even a coherent and rational post instead of clipped psudo-English. If you are not a native US speaker (I see by your location you claim to be from Michigan, but perhaps you are an immigrant), no one is going to fault you for mis-spellings, bad punctuation or poor sentence structure. However, you could at least make a good faith effort to actually debate in your own words, to form a coherent argument…instead of your drive by links to either off the wall or obviously biased sites.
At any rate as I said, I think I’m done with you at this point, at least in this thread. I’ll probably get suckered in again in some other threads…but I’ll leave it to others to ‘debate’ you further if they wish to.
Ado…
-XT
No you XT . You not a snide drive by. You do it. I do not answer to your twisted concept of authority, You think you know it all .please elucidate.