Exactly. People like Sean Hannity, and Bill O’Reilly, and all those other assholes who have taken a perfectly good word like “thug” and turned it into a racial slur need to fought at every turn on this issue. We shouldn’t let scum like that define the English language for us.
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That is who you were talking about, wasn’t it, doorhinge?
I grow tired of explaining this, and my perspective may be different than other people on my “side” of the debate… I really do get tired of explaining this… anyway:
The objection is not that thug is used to describe criminals, even if it is a black criminal. The objection is when it is used to describe black people who are - not - criminals but meet (from the eyes of the person using the term thug) the stereotype of “ghetto” or “angry black man”.
Yes, Sherman even admitted, “I know I sounded angry but that is just the way people from Compton talk… it doesn’t mean we are criminals… but people hear a hood dialect and that is what they assume” (I paraphrased his explanation). (The video clip that set the whole thing off.)
according to your definition, yes
Absolutely.
Be aware that there are people who feel that the term has been co-opted by racists as a “safe” way to describe African-Americans in a dismissive and disparaging way. Those people might look askance at you, and question your motives, for using the term. More so if you use it to describe an African-American, and even more so if a young Black man. In the latter case, some of those people will think you a racist.
Whether you choose to “worry” about those people is up to you, and I’m not saying it’s a good thing. I’m just saying it’s a thing.
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Doesn’t this answer the question you posted in the OP? Hannity is using the term to refer to “angry black men” and rappers are using the term to refer to actual thugs.
Well, I don’t use the word “thug” to mean that and never will. People who use the word “thug” to describe what you say here are using the word “thug” wrong.
OK… I’m not defending Hannity
I’m criticizing the free pass we give rappers to glorify criminality and violence. They do get some criticism, but, not that much really…
Well, look, I’m not the most diplomatic person but as long as you don’t use Thug to refer to someone “from the ghetto” and that is the only criteria for the word… if you are talking about actual criminals… then ok. I’d still probably use another word, but, if you are using it to describe a criminal… go ahead.
The most recent use of the word thug I ran into was with comments on the latest news from the Waco biker shooting. One group calling them thugs and a bunch of people defending them and saying they are nice boys who are good to their mothers. Most of the bikers were white.
Whose this “we” you speak of?
Crap like that is why I don’t like rap. Or at least thuggish rap I guess I should say.
I liked very early rap. Too bad that didn’t last.
ok
but the focus of this thread is the double standard of letting rappers get a free pass when they use the word Thug…
like I say, I am not very diplomatic, I apologize for being rude
You have not established that rappers are misusing the work like Hannity is.
There’s nothing wrong with the word itself, if used to refer to actual thugs.
my criticism of rappers is twofold, but the first I failed to mention previously:
1- Rappers tend to be black and their audience is largely black, they have white people who listen, but their topics are about things that are relevant to black people. Rappers glamorized the word Thug and a criminal lifestyle. Rightly or wrongly… they were the first to give a negative connotation (positive to them, negative to outsiders) to the word Thug being (somehow) linked to black people.
I know I didn’t describe that perfectly. That is my attempt to describe what happened with rap/gangsta rap.
2- Completely separate from the idea that Hannity etc are misusing the term Thug… glorifying a criminal lifestyle is not admirable, particularly not for a “role model” type figure. Rappers are very popular figures. They should be criticized, heavily, for glorifying criminality in “gangsta” rap.
My first mental association with the word “thug” is always of a low-level tough guy, an enforcer. You say that word, I’m going to think of mob movies (good thing those films never glorified criminality and violence).
It’s only the recent switch to its use as a weasel word meaning “young black man I don’t like the look of” that pushes that other definition to the front of my mind.
And as above, if you’re a rapper and talking about thugs, you’re probably talking about violent criminals. If you’re Karl Rove calling Common a “thug”, you’re just using your coded n-word substitute.
So why can’t we assume that Hannity was using it in a non-racial meaning too? (As if it is certain that it has a racial meaning, but that’s another question).
What do rappers mean when they use the word ‘thug’? I really don’t understand this issue at all. I don’t care what that ass wipe Hannity says, I’ve never heard this usage of ‘thug’ to mean ‘black’. So I just don’t get it.
I’m pretty sure rappers have received their fair share of criticism. In fact, it’s one of the few things I know about the genre is that people are repelled by how it treats crime, drugs, and women. Google “rap music glorifying violence” and you’ll get plenty of hits.
I will give them credit, however, for properly using the word “thug.”
Ok
But what about rappers glamorizing the criminal lifestyle??? Do you have no condemnation/opinion on that issue?
Well, yeah, but you could simply say that this is an example of using a word unfairly. That doesn’t make it racist. What if the word “criminal” was being used in this way - would that make “criminal” racially suspect? Or just wrong?
That’s like saying Cheech and Chong, as celebrities, should be heavily criticized for “glorifying” marijuana use. But if they never glorified weed, they’d never have become celebrities in the first place.