I’m not sure that you do.
It seems to me that you are being needlessly contrary and condescending. Perhaps I mischaracterize your comments, though… your sarcasm seems pretty evident.
Yes, well basically yes, except the express intent of that movie, I feel, was to criticize the “criminal” mindset… but overall, your point is correct.
On the other hand, there is a long history of trying to quiet dissent on the part of African Americans. I think “gangsta rap” is a reaction, an outgrowth, of that stifling phenomena…
This seems to undercut your entire argument. If you believe Tupac wasn’t intending to glorify crime and violence but rather talking about the struggles of black people, why don’t you extend that understanding to more rappers? You use tupac as your example of the glorification of everything criminal in rap, then in the next breath go on to contradict yourself. Who exactly are you even talking about then??
And you want to see more criticism of this outgrowth? I’m really trying to follow you here but you seem to be all over the place.
Well… I do tend to ramble… some people follow me, some people don’t.
If you reject the idea that “gangsta rap” glorifies criminality and violence… I don’t know what to say… I think the title itself explains itself.
I know Wikipedia isin’t the best source. If you really really insist, I can try to find better sources.
It’s a very complex topic. But at some level, yes, rappers should be held accountable for the message they produce. I didn’t say censored… I don’t know what to do. But they defiently need to be criticized more.
You claim both sides of the argument. It’s like you’re so scared of your position being called out and exposed, you instantly flip flop rather than try to defend that position.
Or, perhaps, it is like Tupac inadvertently started a trend that he did not necessarily see the end that it would come to. In fact, his death by gunfire in a gang related shooting even glorifies his gangsta rap persona even more.
Perhaps, instead of focusing on me, and my failings in rhetoric and logic, you could share your own thoughts on the topic of gangsta rap, thug life, and whether or not you think that influences young black men to emulate the lifestyle they hear in the music.
What about calling out bluegrass music for it’s violence?
This is your OP, the first post. All you mention is ‘rappers using Thug to sell records’, no specifics given.
Here is your very next post in the thread, where you mention a rapper by name. Tupac is the only rapper you mention.
And you even admit here that you are critical of Tupac’s legacy.
Since the only rapper you’ve mentioned in this thread is Tupac, I’ve got to assume you think this “free pass” from criticism for glorifying crime and violence has been given to him as well.
Again, just pointing out that you must mean Tupac has been the recipient of this “double standard” regarding use of Thug, since you’ve only named him as examples of such rappers.
So now you are once again flipping and trying to say Tupac inadvertently started a trend that spun out of his control. I say pick an opinion dude. Does Tupac deserve criticism or was he actually trying to talk about the marginalized lives of many black people?
Did you see the part where I asked about your opinion, the opinion of Ambivalid on this topic?
What about it?
Are you going to deny that rap music glorifies crime and violence? Or are you going to try and change the subject by googling rock and roll lyrics that also mention violence?
Or, maybe your point is exactly correct…
Perhaps I am wrong, perhaps gangsta rap no more influences young black men to commit crime than how white kids in the 80’s listened to “breaking the law” by Judas Priest but still, more or less, stayed out of trouble. “I fought the law and the law won” is another song. Did white kids in the 80’s drive fast, over the speed limit, because of the song “I can’t drive 55” or, did they drive that way regardless of the song, simply because they were teenagers?
I am tempted to say gangsta rap is worse, because those kids actually emulate those artists as personal hero’s… but I could be completely wrong about that. Perhaps it is, honestly, nothing more than my ignorance on the topic and white privilege that I have no true perspective. I would be glad, more than glad, to be proven wrong.
Because he thinks it’s “right” to be a Lefty but he has a tonne of instincts/feelings that are at odds with this “right” thinking. He’s had a bunch of threads like this.
I don’t think rap music and rappers deserve more criticism for not being better role models for the youth that listen to their music.
Yes, this is true. /\
Why, I wonder, however, is talking about me more important to you, than talking about the topic at hand?
1- Not being a better role model
2- Being a - bad - role model
There is at least a small amount of difference between the two.
Anyone who has attempted to decipher the topic and post about it is ignored by you. So again, you think rappers talk up violence and are given a free pass. What should be done instead? What would **NOT **giving them a free pass look like? Should a bunch of older TV journalists talk about how bad violent rap lyrics are, will that influence rappers to stop? Should we all send them a strongly worded letter? Or are you suggesting censorship?
It’s been over two decades since Cop Killer came out. I don’t think Ice-T was given a pass on that. But any protests against the song just made it more popular, and heard by more young people.
If you’re a teenager, who do you want to emulate - Marlon Brando in the Wild One, or a stuffy, boring, law-abiding old cop? If you’re a teenager, whose side seems fun and thrilling and exciting - Ice-T who is saying SO MANY bad words and riling up the olds and getting so much attention; or Dan Quayle and Tipper Gore, wagging their fingers at him?
Um, OK. And the relevance of this small bit of difference?
Why would you say this? I’m not ignoring your comments, below /.
Yes
I do not know what should be done about it
Yeah, not that I would censor anything but yeah, if you denounce something it will just make it more popular for a teenager, at least in most cases.
Yeah, I agree, you’d want to be Marlon Brando or Ice-T. Well, I’d rather be Chuck D but I see your point…
I allways thought the warning label thing on records was way overblown, the controversy about it. We have PG 13 and R rated movies… why would/should music be any different? But, if they had no warning labels on music either, I wouldn’t care in that direction either. It seems trivial in both directions to me, to be honest… and it wound up having the effect you mentioned above… the warning label stuff was what the kids all wanted anyway… which, I think, was what Frank Zappa tried to warn them about. Watch him and John Denver debating the topic with congress on YouTube… really interesting. Still, I kind of think it was all overblown and trivial.
I’m not sure why you would take the attitude you do with me in this and other posts in this thread. Examine my statistics under my profile, if you like. Or don’t. Look at the threads I start. The point is, sometimes I make strong controversial statements. Sometimes I ask questions. Believe it or not, when I say, what do you think about ABC vs XYZ… that is what I mean, precisely, a question.
Believe me, if my point is that ABC sucks… I’ll tell you, I won’t “pretend” to ask. (Well, unless I am being over the top sarcastic).
So
I have still not made up my mind on this topic. I still think that rappers have at least - some - negative influence on youth as being bad role models. That does not mean I want to censor anything or condemn anyone.
I don’t know. Really, I am not being evasive on purpose. I guess maybe if I did know, if I did have an exact answer, I would of opened the thread with a declarative statement instead of a question… like, there would of been no question mark at the end…
Do you have any thoughts about the relevance of the small amount of difference?
See, that, up there /.… right there… a question mark (?). This means I am asking your opinion, not, preaching on a soapbox. (Well, I am being a bit snarky, but… you were kind of being a bit sarcastic, weren’t you?).
Don’t forget… /\ (?).