The ozone hole is closing


I didn’t know that it could close. I mean, I didn’t know that it could close until after humanity had all died of AIDS and skin cancer and heavy metal poisoning.

Why didn’t they ever tell us this in school? The world was supposed to be over by now.

Another article, this one from a science magazine


Sounds like you’d best get cracking on studying for that big exam after all.

Yes, but doing so has boosted global warming. Ya win some, ya lose some.

I’ll see your closing hole in the ozone-layer and raise you an Sahara-sesert in retreat:

So a major international treaty that gets followed can actually have an impact on global climate issues?


Well that’s a plus for Africa; but, on the downside, it’s because the deserts have moved north to Spain. :frowning:

Yes, but read the article you quoted yourself.

The problem is not “drought”: it’s overuse. We’ve turned Almería (which has been a desert since time immemorial) into a plastic sea of hothouses irrigated with water from wells and from nearby rivers; the wells are running out, so now the people from Almería whine that “Almería is becoming a desert” and cry that people from the North should let them take water from our rivers. Uh, no, and you guys have always lived in a desert! The overuse of water upriver has lead to drying the Tablas de Daimiel or the Coto de Doñana almost completely. Another big source of desertization is fires, most of which are caused by man (over 60% by official statistics) and way too often on purpose.

The current Spanish government is Socialist. Andalusia (to which Almería belongs) is a Socialist stronghold; the previous time they came into power it was by buying votes, both directly and through the creation of a special unemployment subsidy for temporary agricultural workers: everybody else must have worked at least 9 months to get a subsidy whereas aggies from Andalusia and Extremadura only need to work for… 30 days! The communities from which the Andalusians want to get the water are decidedly non-socialist, partly due to the harm caused to our farmers by the aforementioned subsidy. Many farmers up north would more gladly have as their son-in-law a Muslim subsaharian immigrant than an Andalusian.

Desertization, yes; but what we need to do is learn to use the water there is and stop trying to turn deserts into vegas. And of course, stop whining that our deserts are becoming deserts!

I didn’t mean to imply that the desertification of Spain was particularly due to climatic conditions, Nava (although they are a part of the problem); my earlier post was only 19 words long, and made no attempt to assign causality!

As a resident of Northern California, I’m all too familiar with the “North has the water / South wants the water” meme. I’ve been to Almeria (and I’ve seen Lawrence of Arabia several times) so I’m aware that it really wants to be desert. I completely sympathize with the views of northern Spaniards such as yourself, although I’ll admit that I’m not as familiar with water issues and irrigation projects in Spain as I am with those in the Western US. Thanks for giving us the view from Up North!

Actually, I noticed: you just mentioned the issue, didn’t comment on it. Sorry that I jumped up.

If you want to see some terrific desert pictures from Spain, google Bardenas. I used to have a pic of Monte Huevo on my desk and people thought it was Arizona. There isn’t any official documentation on how it got that way: we know it was a forest in the 15th century and not anymore by the mid-16th. The legend I got from Dad is that it was burned down by Cardenal Cisneros when he was Viceroy of Navarra, to run out the bandits (Aragon and Navarra still had separate coins and taxes, so there were smugglers). Then google Irati: the two places are 100 miles apart - both in Navarra.

In related news, monkeys actually do fly out of my ass, except they come out sideways and with sunglasses on.

Antarctic ozone hole nears record: U.N. agency

ManBearPig is real! I’m totally super-serial!

I was of the understanding that there never was a hole, that there were highly depleted levels of ozone (most notably over mount Pinatubo right after the eruption) and that those levels have already rebounded, just as all depleted ozone locations do as a result of the existence of the sun.

I was further of the understanding that in order to punch a hole in the ozone layer and keep it there would require knocking out the sun, since that’s where ozone is created.

was I wrong? Could someone cite data that indicates there has actually been a hole in the ozone layer at all?

It’s closing? Oh no! Quick - Where are all my spray cans???

Depletion of underground aquifers and the attendant inevitable decline of available water for consumption and irrigation is real, unspoken ecological catastrophe that looms [del]overhead[/del] underfoot. Unlike, say, global climate change (which may progress rapidly but still in stages to which civilizations can adapt), aquifer depletion will result in dramatic and ruinous decline of water supplies. Furthermore, underground aquifers require a water content as part of their structure; without it they’ll compress under load from the ground they support and, like a squeezed sponge, won’t be able to absorb or retain as much water even if the attempt is made to somehow artificially replenish them. Also, in some areas (such as Mexico City), aquifer depletion is resulting in geologic shifting and sinking, undermining building and public works foundations. We can probably adapt to global warming and a more active climate (albeit at great cost and with many adjustments). But without potable water to drink and grow crops, we’re in big hurt.

Oh well; forget about it. It’s Chinatown.


Updating this thread there has been more improvement in the last 13 years:

Here is the executive summary of the report:

Enjoy it while you can. CFCs are coming back in China thanks to loose enforcement.