"The Passion" I Have For People Creating More Hate In The World

[CheekyMonkey613]

Ok, that’s cool. Churches are buying out theatre showings of the movie.

Ok, that’s cool. Rabbis are announcing to their congregation that the next Shabbat services will be about the movie. Kinda weird, but they get standing room only audiences.

Whatever makes your diamond shine on your day of rest, I guess.

I haven’t seen the movie. I won’t see the movie. I refuse to give a penny of my money to the movie. If the Simon Wiesenthal Centre (which I deeply respect) is taking a stance that the movie is anti-Semitic, then that’s good enough for me not to spend my money on it.

From www.wiesenthal.com:

Rabbi Marvin Hier, Wiesenthal Center Dean and Founder, “As we have said many times, our disagreement is not with Christian churches, nor with the Gospels. Our disagreement is with Mel Gibson whose own personal embellishments of the Gospels stereotype and denigrate the masses of Jews who were not followers of Jesus, while at the same time whitewash Pontius Pilate, who crucified a quarter of a million Jews and who was recalled to Rome by Caesar five years later for his brutality.”

Pastor Ted Haggard, President of the National Association of Evangelical Christians, “We will…continue on the path of friendship and closeness. We will continue our strong support for the State of Israel. We will not let our Jewish friends down in their time of need. We condemn unequivocally the cancer of anti-Semitism. We reject as unchristian with all the power we can muster any assertion that Jews collectively bare exclusive responsibility for the death of Christ…We will speak out against hatred of Jews…and we will declare loud and clear that we will not allow bigotry to drive a wedge between us.”

The Centre has received such hatemail as:

“…What this tells me is that you do not want the real truth to be shown on a public setting that will remind millions of Americans that the jews [sic] were in fact totally responsible for the death of Jesus Christ …some of these enlightened folks will go for the throat of you jews [sic] and some of your offices of hate such as the ADL main office in New York, or maybe even the Simon Wiesenthal Center. Every time I hear of a suicide bomber killing jews [sic] in Israel I think to myself YES!”

That alone should stand, but I invite you to peruse Abbynormalguy’s rant, Anti-Semitism in relation to today’s Passion release, in which a Denver church has put up a sign saying: “Jews killed the Lord Jesus”.

More digging would find more sewage, so I won’t bother. Being in many online Jewish communities, I’m inundated daily on the reactions to the movie. I don’t have to see more to know they won’t get my money, though I’m quite curious to see the movie myself. I’ll take their words for it. I’d say that I would watch the movie for free if the chance arose, but being a Jew in this context … I won’t expect that my motives would be understood, so I won’t.

So this is what I’m doing. Above all charities I give this year, I’m now sending out a cheque to the Shoah Foundation (aka Survivors of the Shoah Visual History Foundation). Steven Spielberg established this foundation in 1994 after filming Schindlers List. I will send the exact amount of money that it costs to see “The Passion”. I believe in my city it’s $13, but I will confirm before I send my cheque. I will send a photocopy of that cheque to the production company of “The Passion”. Written at the bottom of this photocopy will be: “In lieu of support of your movie, the cost of a theatre ticket has been donated to the Shoah Foundation.”

For any of you who want to follow in my footsteps:
Online Donation
Other Options
Steve Klappholz
Vice President for Development
Survivors of the Shoah Visual History Foundation
P.O. Box 3168
Los Angeles, CA 90078-3168
Phone: 818-866-2004
Fax: 818-866-5241
Klappholz@vhf.org

Please send your photocopied proof of donation to:
Producers of “The Passion”
c/o Bruce Davey, Mel Gibson, Stephen McEveety, Enzo Sisti
Icon AFM Office
#754, Loews Santa Monica
Los Angeles, CA, USA
phone: 1-310-917-4822
fax 1-310-917-4821

[MrSarcasticus]

Regardless, the fact that you haven’t seen it and are letting others form your opinion just makes you look like an ignorant dumbfuck.

[Boo_Boo_Foo]

Three nights ago, I was introduced to a little African girl from Uganda who was 2 years old and is deaf from meningitis.

Her mother is HIV positive, and the little girl and her 10 week old sister have been removed from the mother after she tried to kill the 10 week old sister.

The two year old girl was raped at 6 months by her Uncle who is also HIV positive because the local witch doctor told the Uncle it would be a great way to remove his HIV problem.

The little 2 year old girl is in Australia with her Aid Worker adopted parents because they are trying to raise $25,000 to hopefully fit a cochlear implant so the lovely little darling can hear again.

She was lovely - even after all of her troubles and horrors for someone so young - still, she was lovely and she made me cry…

My point? In life, we always think that OUR problems are the most important problems in the world. It seems to me that if someone in the USA finds that their biggest problem in life is whether a fucking movie should, or shouldn’t be boycotted, then compared to the shitfight that is Africa, you don’t have much to complain about mate.

[beagledave]

I’m assuming that CheekyMonkey613 has similarly boycotted Spike Lee films as well, right?

[Airman_Doors_USAF]

@CheekyMonkey613

I haven’t seen the movie. I won’t see the movie. I refuse to give a penny of my money to the movie. If the Simon Wiesenthal Centre (which I deeply respect) is taking a stance that the movie is anti-Semitic, then that’s good enough for me not to spend my money on it.

I’m still unconvinced that the movie itself is Anti-Semitic. I laid this all out in the referenced thread, but I’ll repeat it for people who don’t care to look.

If the Bible is looked upon as an historical record, then the Jews were complicit in Jesus’ death. Of course, Christian doctrine is dependent upon Jesus’ death, so I don’t see that as a bad thing at all.

Any charge of Anti-Semitism needs to be substantiated with some sort of evidence of actions resulting from this movie. I don’t see any violence against Jews in the news, do you? The fact is, Christians owe the Jews that gave Jesus up a great debt. Anyone who uses this to press forward with an Anti-Semitic agenda is the kind of person who hates Jews whether this movie is made or not.

The ultimate irony is that the screenplay for this movie has been available for almost 2,000 years. Is the Bible Anti-Semitic? All the movie is is a visual rather than written description of the events. Big deal.

[iampunha]

@Airman Doors

If the Bible is looked upon as an historical record, then the Jews were complicit in Jesus’ death.

This would be predicated upon the necessity that the Bible is accurate enough in its depiction of the relevant events that no crucial or important detail is altered from how things actually went down.

Any charge of Anti-Semitism needs to be substantiated with some sort of evidence of actions resulting from this movie.

I’m not sure I agree with you here. You’re saying that the movie is only Anti-Semitic if stuff happens as a result of the movie that’s anti-semitic? If so, one need look only as far as, IIRC, that Denver church cited in gobear’s pit thread. However, that a movie inspires X or Y attitude doesn’t mean by necessity that said attitude will be borne out physically. It makes the effect more pronounced, more recognizable, to be sure, but you don’t have to act out X for X to be true inside you. And you don’t even have to have X thought inside you after a movie to recognize it in such. I’d bet most of the anti-semites who saw Schindler’s List didn’t come out of there feeling for Jewish people, but there was definitely pro-jewish sentiment in that movie in spades.

Anyone who uses this to press forward with an Anti-Semitic agenda is the kind of person who hates Jews whether this movie is made or not.

True, but any anti-semitism in the movie probably doesn’t help either.

All the movie is is a visual rather than written description of the events. Big deal.

Yeah, but cough a few cough liberties have been taken, so let’s not pretend this is an exact (or even meant as an exact) depiction.

Mind, I don’t plan to take much of a stance re: its anti-semitism until I’ve seen the movie. I’ve heard enough people say yes and enough say no that I think in this case it would be personally irresponsible (for me; I don’t deliberately extend this to anyone else) to go on the record either way. I would encourage anyone seeking to make a statement about this film to actually get enough firsthand experience (the movie, not a review) to make that judgment call.

[London_Calling]

You’re talking about a perception someone else has of how Gibson portrays some Jews to be like 2,000 years ago ?

As in, these people were like this 2,000 years ago so all Jews are like it now ?

And you want us to take your word that this guy Wiesenthal’s center is the arbiter of all things anti-Semitic and what they say must be true, so we needn’t bother forming an opinion ourselves ?

This is still the Straight Dope, right ?

Wanker.

[beagledave]

FWIW, one Jewish commentator who would disagree with the OP.

[CheekyMonkey613]

@MrSarcasticus

Regardless, the fact that you haven’t seen it and are letting others form your opinion just makes you look like an ignorant dumbfuck.

You’re absolutely right. And I wrote this post knowing that I would look (to some) like and ingnorant dumbfuck. I have a pretty good idea of how the story went. And I have a pretty good idea of how it was told. I prefer looking like a dumbfuck than supporting a movie which has the Jewish community, who have had the chance to see it, up in arms. Like I said, I respect the Simon Wiesenthal Centre. I can’t remember one incident of crying wolf; I have no reason to believe they are now. It also has led churches, like mentioned in the OP, to brazenly put up signs saying: The Jews Killed The Lord Jesus. Whether or not this movie is anti-semitic, the lines have definitely been crossed in the aftermath. Mr. Gibson was warned of this before it’s release, but he pursued. And just as he has the right to pursue his mission, I have the right not to pay to see it. As one man from the SWC said yesterday on Entertainment Tonight: "One comment is not a behaviour. It’s a comment and you have to let it go. Two hours of the same comment in your face is a behaviour and must be treated as anti-semitism. It’s not that I won’t give my time to see the movie ~ I would. Makes no dif to Mel. It’s what does make a dif to Mel that I won’t give.

Between the SWC and Mel Gibson, I give benefit of the doubt to SWC. And I’ll spend my money elsewhere. I’d say, overall, if you wanna call me a dumbfuck for supporting the Shoah Foundation instead of buying a ticket for this movie, clearly we agree to disagree.

[CheekyMonkey613]

@CheekyMonkey613

As one man from the SWC said yesterday on Entertainment Tonight: “One comment is not a behaviour. It’s a comment and you have to let it go. Two hours of the same comment in your face is a behaviour and must be treated as anti-semitism.”

Sorry. That was the original quote. I omitted closing the quotes.

[Avalonian]

Cheeky, support the Shoah Foundation if you like, and don’t see The Passion as you like… I have no problem whatsoever with either choice. Giving to a good charity does more good anyway.

However, don’t condemn a film as “creating more hate” until you’ve actually seen it and judged for yourself. My personal interpretation of The Passion (having seen it and all) is that it’s more about loving everyone, your friends and your enemies, than anything else. Whether the Simon Wiesenthal Centre has cried wolf before or not, it seems clear to me that they did here. As I’ve said elsewhere, anyone who says that The Passion is anti-Semitic hasn’t seen the film, or at least missed the last 2/3 of it.

But, y’know, believe what you like. As long as you know you’re not talking from a position of actual knowledge, you can be as sure of your opinion as that merits.

Which isn’t much.

[Belrix]

Well, if one church in Denver can speak for the whole Christian community then I’ll chose one jew, the man in beagledave’s posting, to speak for the entire Jewish community. I guess if we just pick who we want to listen to, we can ignore everything else.

The church in Denver was picketed by (among others) Christians demanding the sign be removed. The sign was changed by that same evening. The pastor should be removed from his office for posting such hateful messages, IMO.

I’m a Christian. The bible teaches us that the sin of us all, past and present, was responsible for placing Jesus on the cross - not the Jews. The movie supports this view. Gibson publically states this view. I don’t blame the Jews of 2000 years ago for the death of Jesus and I don’t blame modern Jews, either.

The church in Denver does not speak for me, and I’d hazard, the majority of Christians.

I have to agree that you’re demonstrating willful ignorance in pitting this film without seeing it.

[Miller]

@CheekyMonkey613

You’re absolutely right. And I wrote this post knowing that I would look (to some) like and ingnorant dumbfuck. I have a pretty good idea of how the story went. And I have a pretty good idea of how it was told.

Since you haven’t seen the movie, the above would be a lie.

I prefer looking like a dumbfuck than supporting a movie which has the Jewish community, who have had the chance to see it, up in arms.

Define “Jewish community.” Knowing you, I suspect it means, “Jews that I know and/or like.”

Like I said, I respect the Simon Wiesenthal Centre.

So do I, but that doesn’t mean they can’t occasionally be incorrect.

I can’t remember one incident of crying wolf; I have no reason to believe they are now. It also has led churches, like mentioned in the OP, to brazenly put up signs saying: The Jews Killed The Lord Jesus. Whether or not this movie is anti-semitic, the lines have definitely been crossed in the aftermath. Mr. Gibson was warned of this before it’s release, but he pursued.

First of all, is there a cite anywhere out there that has some sort of explicit link between that Denver church and this movie? Second, assuming that such a cite exsists, so what? Anti-Semites are morons. If a moron see this movie and completly misses the point, how is that the fault of the movie, or of Mel Gibson?

And just as he has the right to pursue his mission, I have the right not to pay to see it.

True. However, if you haven’t seen the movie, you don’t have the right to an opinion on it. Because you have no basis on which to form one.

As one man from the SWC said yesterday on Entertainment Tonight: “One comment is not a behaviour. It’s a comment and you have to let it go. Two hours of the same comment in your face is a behaviour and must be treated as anti-semitism.”

Assuming this is an accurate transcription of that man’s words, than he is a moron. Not only does this statement reflect nothing in the movie, it makes no sense in and of itself.

It’s not that I won’t give my time to see the movie ~ I would. Makes no dif to Mel. It’s what does make a dif to Mel that I won’t give.

What the hell does that this mean?

Between the SWC and Mel Gibson, I give benefit of the doubt to SWC. And I’ll spend my money elsewhere. I’d say, overall, if you wanna call me a dumbfuck for supporting the Shoah Foundation instead of buying a ticket for this movie, clearly we agree to disagree.

No, I’ll call you a dumbfuck for refusing to form your own opinions and think for yourself. You’re no different than the idiots who were protesting Life of Brian or Dogma before they had even opened, because their priest who also hadn’t seen it said it was blasphemous. If you want to talk about the movie, see it first. If you don’t want to see it, shut the fuck up about it.

[iampunha]

@Miller

No, I’ll call you a dumbfuck for refusing to form your own opinions and think for yourself. You’re no different than the idiots who were protesting Life of Brian or Dogma before they had even opened, because their priest who also hadn’t seen it said it was blasphemous. If you want to talk about the movie, see it first. If you don’t want to see it, shut the fuck up about it.

More recently, Harry Potter movies have been decried by some conservative christians who loudly proclaimed that they A) had not seen the movie and B) had no plans to. But wasn’t supposed to detract from the central theme of their message, which was that Harry Potter (the books they hadn’t read either, and one suspects they heard “there’s dark magic in it” and formed an opinion right there) was the root of all evil.

CheekyMonkey, do realize that many here look to form opinions based on their own experience as well as those around them. If you’re missing the first part, how can any opinion you hold possibly be your own? You’re merely parroting what someone else said, which is hardly intellectually responsible, and at the same time decrying (or rather, the Wiesenthal Center is decrying, and you echo their statements) the factual inaccuracies/poetic license exercised by Gibson. That seems even more intellectually responsible, and rather contrary to the focal point of this website: fighting ignorance.

[Typo_Negative]

The Centre has received such hatemail as:
Quote:
*"…What this tells me is that you do not want the real truth to be shown on a public setting that will remind millions of Americans that the jews [sic] were in fact totally responsible for the death of Jesus Christ …some of these enlightened folks will go for the throat of you jews [sic] and some of your offices of hate such as the ADL main office in New York, or maybe even the Simon Wiesenthal Center. Every time I hear of a suicide bomber killing jews [sic] in Israel I think to myself YES!" *

C’mon, now. You really don’t think it was the movie that made this guy a babbling chowderhead, do you?

I’m sure this racist idiot has been telling this to everyone who will listen for years…

[Eve]

@Boo Boo Foo

Three nights ago, I was introduced to a little African girl from Uganda who was 2 years old and is deaf from meningitis. . . It seems to me that if someone in the USA finds that their biggest problem in life is whether a fucking movie should, or shouldn’t be boycotted, then compared to the shitfight that is Africa, you don’t have much to complain about mate.

That’s awful. A friend of mine is slowly dying of cancer that has spread, through the past few years, throughout her body. She is in dreadful pain and her death will be long and drawn out. So until you personally go to L.A. and administer morphium to my friend and bring her flowers, I don’t wanna hear you bitchin’ about your little Ugandan girl.

Translation: awful shit goes on all over the world, every day. Please allow us to pick and choose our own battles, Boo Boo.

[manhattan]

@London_Calling

And you want us to take your word that this guy Wiesenthal’s center is the arbiter of all things anti-Semitic and what they say must be true, so we needn’t bother forming an opinion ourselves ?

One might reasonably agree or disagree with the Simon Wiesenthal Center (or any other organization, of course) on this issue, that issue or the other issue.

But for the love of Cecil! “This guy” Wiesenthal? “This guy?” Please tell me you were being facetious. Please, please, please tell me you were being facetious.

[Necro_Romancer]

Good for you, CheekyMonkey. You don’t have to stick your hand in the fire if so many of your community are getting burned. If you’re going to make a decision without seeing the movie, and take action, at least you’re doing it in a positive way. However…if you want any credence, you should probably watch it.

[Blonde]

We’ll be throwing snowballs in Hell before I see that movie. It’s pathetic to think that Mel is becoming richer as we speak.

[Miller]

@Blonde

We’ll be throwing snowballs in Hell before I see that movie. It’s pathetic to think that Mel is becoming richer as we speak.

Now that’s what I call a valuable and enlightening contribution.