The Patriot Act II: Saving America or Destroying it?

The Bush Administration appears ready to float new legislation attempting to strengthen the Patriot Act.

Are we really having trouble stopping terrorists due to being hampered by the bill of rights when dealing with American Citizens, or is our existing structure of end-runs around the constitution, secret trials and tribunals already too much?

And will the Bush Administration continue to float such anti-American trial balloons such as tapping all Americans with the T.I.A, upsetting all and sundry – until their opponents get tired? What exactly is this political plan of theirs? Strictly a power grab, consequences be damned?

While I fear that it would seriously erode our freedoms, I cannot believe that they are trying to subvert the Constitution.

I almost started a debate thread on this earlier today, and started with a Google News search on the topic. I couldn’t find a single editorial defending this thing, and even the superficially partial articles pointed out civil liberty problems.

I think most people thought Patriot 1 went too far, I doubt many will have anything good to say about going even farther.

I would like more information about the alleged “secret arrests” many editorials refer to, though. The one non-editorial article I saw about it, I think from Business Week, didn’t mention anything like that, and I wonder if that particular accusation is exaggerated.

Well, if you can’t believe, it may be a quick debate. :slight_smile:

The freedoms in question are constitutionally founded ones – Article I, V-VII, and X. In what way can they erode these freedoms without subverting the constitution?

I don’t believe that they plan to subvert it. I think that when they are able to use secret pooice to investigate drug use and arrest pot smokers without trial, they will still think they are helping us and honestly believe themselves to be protecting the Constitution.

I believe them to be obnoxious but not malicious if you will.

Or secret spell checkers for that matter.

Well, it certainly took the mass media to begin reporting on Patriot Act II. PBS broke the news about it more than ten days ago and the SDMB was right up there talking about it.

Where were you? :smiley:

Trying to unload my foreign satellite receveir.

Well, I don’t think that the Bush Administration will use it to destroy the nation. To be honest, I don’t think that they are that clever. They probably really will use it it a very sincere, albeit misguided, attempt to catch “terrorists.” As for future administrations, I’m going to optimistically say that when PATRIOT II (Electric Bugaloo) is used for other nefarious purposes, it will fail before the Supreme Court.

Now if you’ll excuse me, I have to go report for reprogramming.

Remember when GWB said how this would be easier if America was a dictatorship and he was the dictator?

I hope this never gets to be voted on by Congress, because who would even vote against it? Just look at the vote totals from the first Patriot act or even the War on Iraq vote.

When did he say that, Elwood?
In a friendly spirit (Cause I don’t like him, either)

Bush and Ashcroft are definitely fascists who are trying to destroy America to institute a corporate dictatorship. It is all spelled out in the Cancer Stage of Capitalism by John McMurtry.

Harborwolf, you made me spit coffee all over my moitor…thanks.

Um. That should be monitor.
Stupid keyboard.