How do you see it then? The first group or the second group’s view? If I know that Donald Trump wants to end democracy in America, and potentially be a dictator…and I know his opponent doesn’t want to do either of those things…then, I think I have a responsibility to vote for his opponent. It’s of no cost to me to cast that vote.
And yet millions refuse to do so.
I think some of them think their vote doesn’t count. Some have convinced themselves that Kamala or Joe or Hillary is just as evil as Trump in some way. Some of them are just lazy. And there might be some that have convinced themselves that Democracy isn’t worth fighting for.
There are many who don’t follow politics that closely, and just don’t get informed. Those people are susceptible to propaganda just because. I’m not as angry at these people, because many of them have no idea what they’re doing.
The people that bother me are the people that know what Trump represents, and they won’t actively oppose in any substantive way.
MAGAs’ snarl phrase for Kamala Harris is “word salad.” Y’see: Kamala speaks like a woman who graduated from Howard University and University of California College of the Law, San Francisco.
And the MAGAs can’t understand her At. All.
Trump honestly speaks like MTG and Lauren Boebert. Anything beyond that and his MAGA base would be utterly lost.
Deciding to take no action is itself an active decision to take a particular articulable action. And bears full responsibilities for the consequences of that outcome.
I had a conversation in mid-2024 with a friend that fully understood what Trump represented. But he wasn’t planning to vote. He used the “but Dems are woke” argument. He used the “my vote doesn’t matter” argument. He also used the “the govt system around Trump will keep him contained.” And he ended up not voting for anyone.
All these things he talked about as an excuse to not actively vote against a guy who was using fascist rhetoric and talking about dictatorship…It’s hard to understand.
When people are erroneously taught that one person’s opinion is as valid as another person’s facts, and People In Power selfishly support this view, the outcome is rather inevitable.
My former good friends who voted trumpy ‘16, turned their vote to RFK positive he would make America healthy again. I put up with their texts sharing derogatory memes against Biden and Harris For the most part they’re all dead to me now. I hates them.
You can be angry at people who didn’t vote, especially those who didn’t vote due to complacency or laziness. But to have the most anger for such people? That makes no sense.
The people who have earned our contempt are those involved right now in tearing down the rule of law, the economy and human rights, firstly, and those that voted for them, secondly. Everyone else is way down the list.
I also want to say on the Palestine thing, because I’ve tried to say this before but maybe I’ve done a bad job and need another run at this.
During the campaign, all the Biden admin had to do was say “We’ll let you have your say, we’ll listen, and we’ll try to reduce the bloodshed”. Even if it was just lip-service, this was the bare minimum.
Instead, they basically told that community: “GFY: We ain’t listening, we’re too worried about the GOP saying Biden is anti-Israel. Sorry, we don’t want to hear any stories about your dead family members.”
So, even though I advised everyone I know to vote Harris, I 100% understand those that could not bring themselves to do it. My anger over that remains at whoever planned out the campaign, that had Harris traipsing around with Cheney, and giving the cold shoulder to important voting blocs. (even putting aside the morality of things)
The counterargument to “If you don’t vote for the lesser of two evils, you’ve effectively voted for the most evil one” may not appeal to you, but you need to consider it before you condemn those of us who don’t like the blackmail.
Suppose a sadistic creep gives you the choice of puncturing the eyes of your loved ones or watching them be killed in front of you. Some would argue that it is obviously better to be blind but alive than to be dead.
But there is a moral component to becoming a cooperating participant in evil.
I do not equate the Democratic Party, or a vote for one of its candidates, as equivalent to deliberately blinding someone. But with the point of this over-the-top example having been made, it’s no longer at all a black and white issue but a sliding scale and a question of where you draw your own lines.
I will argue that you have indeed established that as a matter of logic, there is, and must be, such a line.
What you have failed to even try to establish is that anyone paying attention could seriously say “The Ds are so awful by my carefully considered lights that I will happily accept what the Rs will do to me / the US / the world in preference to attempting in my small way to stop it by voting for the only real alterative.”
Crazy people could think that. Folks paying zero attention to anything but their crappy job and the World of Warcraft could think that.
But to apply real logic and real emotion to real facts and conclude “I prefer abstaining and thereby giving de facto support to trump over supporting Harris and probably helping her win”. Nope. That’s criminal stupidity in the Worst Degree.
I’m going to repeat my prior point, that I don’t give equivalence to those refusing to vote and those voting FOR Trump, but I do assign a negative moral value to the refusal to pick the lesser of evils. And, I certainly THINK real loudly that if they couldn’t be bothered to vote, then they should forfeit the right to complain about what happens to them as a result, albeit with a HUGE number of caveats and provisos. For example, I don’t blame OR condone those people in deep red states who felt that it was a useless protest. I still don’t AGREE, but I mitigate my judgement. Similarly, there are plenty of people living in states or under circumstances that made it unfairly hard to vote (transportation, deliberately limiting of urban voting centers for “fairness”, restrictions on absentee or Vote by Mail, or just stuck working because food and shelter come first).
So I try very hard not to judge too much unless someone volunteers their circumstances. But if they do… well, then yes, I’ll judge by my standards, even if they feel that their own is superior. We are all human.
I’m not an “independent”; I don’t owe you anything; if I’d voted for your piece of shit I’d still’ve voted for a piece of shit making me a piece of shit; my vote isn’t mathematically important (and neither is yours, for that matter).
It makes me angry that all of you assholes voted for Harris instead of my guy. It makes me angry that the other assholes voted for Trump instead of my guy. Oh, but you get to be outraged, and I’m shamed for voting for the best candidate?
If “My Guy” doesn’t have a chance in hell of winning because of poor publicity, bad image etc., then I won’t throw my country to the wolves for my personal “moral victory”. By the way, who was your guy?
What’s your view of Trump? What’s your view of Harris? Why did you vote for a candidate that had no chance of winning a single electoral vote in any state?
I don’t understand this as well. ISTM that anyone who watches Trump speak, for even five minutes total, should conclude that "this man is a collosal, obvious, bullshitter. That it’s not equally obvious to however many hundreds of millions of voters is absolutely mind boggling and terrifying.
This is not the Trolley Problem. In the Trolley Problem, somebody dies regardless of whether you act or not. A proper analogy would be-
You see a trolley coming down the tracks. The tracks fork. On one fork is man tied to the tracks. He is screaming for help. The other fork is just ordinary tracks. Currently, the trolley is headed down the first fork and the man will die. If you switch the trolley to the other track, no one will die or be injured. The switch to change the trolley to the second track is right next to you. What do you do?
What would you describe yourself as then?
I posted above that voting for anybody but the Republican or Democratic candidate in a Presidential election is wasting your vote. I gather you disagree with that. Could you explain why?
Sorry to seem repetitive, but could you explain that? I cannot figure out what lead you to this conclusion.
Again, I posted above why voting for anybody but the Republican or Democratic candidate in a Presidential election is wasting your vote. So, whether you thought Harris was the best candidate for the job is not relevant. Realistically, your choices were her or Trump.
And just who did you vote for and why were they “the best candidate”?
