That this even needs to be stated is pretty depressing.
Haters.
Seriously though; hip hop, like all mediums, is only as good as the message. And as a medium, hip hop has a long history of social/political awareness and confrontation; something that is not seen in any other genre of music. It is a strong tool for that could be used for bullshit too. It all depends on who you listen too.
Additional
In the beginning
Somalia
If Rap Gets Jealous
Wash It Down
No, silly, urdoingitwrong! Abortion clinic bombers should be shot on sight! So should abortionists! All this limp-wristed “debate” and “discussion” we’ve been having in our society? Good Lord, save us from this nonsense! Shoot first and ask questions never!
Not sure how this thread got … um … hijacked, but to return to the pirates: In the news today, we saw that they have attacked an American ship loaded with food aid. It’s hard to argue that that constitutes “defending” Somalia in any way.
This is bullshit. Are pirates making any sort of demands about stopping illegal fishing or stopping the dumping of nuclear waste? No. They are hijacking ships, many of which contain relief supplies bound for the very people the author of the article claims the pirates are “defending”. Where does the money go? Is it going to raising awareness of these important issues or to Somali warlords?
So sorry, I don’t buy the Robin Hood crap.
No one in any of the links claim that the current pirates are robin hood, all the links are to people who are merely explaining the context in which piracy started in Somalia and the contributing factors to which they continue.
You will quickly see that the point of the article is to provide the largely western readers (us) with information to how piracy came to be in Somalia. This is good information which the western press (not counting the excellent on going coverage by Aljazeera) has not even bothered to report.
This upsetting tread leads to a western public that is ill-informed and mislead (hence the title “You are being lied to about pirates”). This information is needed to richen our debates and inform our future course of action, and we are all better having known it. It’s just sad that most of the western press has dropped the ball on this one. Here, try to listen to that K’naan link I provided(just from 0:40-1:13) He isn’t painting these pirates as heroes but merely explaining how they came to exist. He even condemns them as “greedy,” “legitimate pirates,” “Gangsters.” (2:40-3:15)
This is an honest (and informed) explanation of the current situation from someone who has been closely following these developments (following them a lot closer then any of us westerners or our “Internet warriors” have been) and cares about their quick, clean resolution.
Seems like it’s a local law enforcement issue to me. The pirates are operating out of Somalia so the government in Somalia need to stop them using their territory. Since there is a lack of government there then the international community should:
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help the Somalis set up a proper government with a decent army/police
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look into any allegations of overfishing/toxic waste dumping and take steps to stop it, if found to be true
If there was peace and a proper government in Somalia then the pirate problem would disappear in no time coz the local cops would go after them. You can keep on killing them but they will keep on coming as long as there are no local forces on the ground stopping them. It’s the lawlessness of Somalia that’s the problem.
“One of the pirate leaders, Sugule Ali, said their motive was “to stop illegal fishing and dumping in our waters … We don’t consider ourselves sea bandits. We consider sea bandits [to be] those who illegally fish and dump in our seas and dump waste in our seas and carry weapons in our seas.””
I’m using “Robin Hood” in a loose sense that they are supposedly committing these crimes out of a sense of justice or necessessity. “Jean Valjean” if you prefer another metaphor, stealing bread to feed his family. Except that his bread is shipped on giant container ships and bulk haulers.
The article in the link is an attempt to humanize the pirates as sympathetic characters. Look, what it comes down to is that the country of Somalia has no government and these people have nothing to do and no way to make money. It’s disingenuous to claim that these pirates are pirating “because of ships dumping nuclear waste”. They aren’t jacking up those ships.
It’s unfortunate, but that doesn’t change the fact that they are potentially dangerous criminals. If someone carjacks you, do you care what his personal situation is?
Where does your “should” come from? I think that the “international community” “should” do whatever they damn well please, up to and including nuking Somalia from orbit.
That article doesn’t mention how foreign nations overfished the coast to the point of collapse.
In the short term, I’ll all for the navy to go in and bust some heads to restore order. In the long term, I know it will never work unless Somalia is rebuilt as a nation, and unless foreign nations can respect the Somalian coastline, and the Somalian people have a legitimate economic alternative to piracy.
This part:
Do we take the “reasons” for rape or child molestation into account? No, that would be irrational.
You are right, they are clearly not jacking those ships; however the author only says that they **emerged **to stop illegal fishing/dumping. Later many found out that they could make much more money jacking merchant ships. Thus pirates were born.
The nuclear waste and illegal fishing are all documented facts, you can say that this story is an attempt to humanize the pirates as sympathetic characters, however the author makes his own opinion clear: “No, this doesn’t make hostage-taking justifiable, and yes, some are clearly just gangsters - especially those who have held up World Food Program supplies.”
Either way this debate is really about our slightly differing sensibilities rather than any factual disagreements in the story; I actually agree with the rest of your post.
Killing every man, woman and child in Somalia is as likely to happen as you getting your own house nuked. :rolleyes:
Really? We don’t? I don’t work with sex offenders, but I do work in criminal justice, and my impression was that sex offenders in the justice system are required to obtain treatment to address the underlying bio-psycho-social causes of their offense. On another tack, there are programs aimed at educating people about the situations and behaviors that increase the risk of rape and child molestation and how they and their families can avoid those risks - that is, we teach women to avoid dark allies, to walk with confidence, and to defend themselves, and we teach children not to be alone with strangers and to report uncomfortable situations, which are other ways of taking the reasons for rape and molestation into account. Of course, nothing I mentioned involves lessening the punishment sex offenders receive. Neither have I nor anyone else suggested sparing pirates. But killing the pirates without addressing the underlying causes of piracy won’t stop piracy. Neither will ignoring the fact that the pirates have legitimate grievances that should be addressed independently of the fact of their piracy and that might reduce future instances of piracy if addressed. Killing pirates is a good policy, and one I support. I am very proud of what our SEALs accomplished recently. But killing’s usefulness is limited. It solves acute problems like hostage takings, but it doesn’t stop the next generation from becoming pirates.
We shouldn’t shut our eyes and ears to the terrible facts of what produced these criminals. Nor should we shrink from asking ourselves hard questions about how we might have contributed to their situation or what we might do differently to prevent piracy in the long term.
I don’t know about mutantmoose, but when I use the word “should” I am arguing from my own preferences for how I would like the world to be and the judgments I make about how to get there.
When I say the international community “should” address the underlying causes of piracy, I mean nothing more nor less than that I prefer it to be so. I have reasons that I think are compelling to any reasonable human, based on common human needs and interests, but I don’t ascribe any metaphysical properties to my preferences, the reasons for them, or the common needs and interests of humans.
Some people are not reasonable and are so disconnected from or opposed to the needs and interests of the rest of humanity that they “should” (meaning I prefer that they) be dealt with through force, coercion, or death. This group includes both pirates and others who believe that killing innocent people is justified and who take action to do so. If anyone really believed that Somalia “should” (by any ordinary definition) be nuked and took concrete action to make it happen, I’d think they should be locked up. People who troll internet message boards should just be dope slapped.
I must admit that"Television Trust for the Environment"(The organisation behind your cite) is not a charity that I’m familiar with but taking it at face value it is very specifically about Senegal,which is on the WEST coast of the rather large African continent where the Atlantic is.
Somalia is on the EAST coast of Africa where the Indian ocean is.
Travelling all the way around the African continent to go fishing might or might not happen I honestly dont know.
I suppose fishing boats from Europe could transit the Suez Canal to get down to the Horn of Africa,I’m not sure what the Canal fees work out at and whether or not it would be worth the trouble .
But the cite that you have given is totally irrelevant to Somalia and I think that maybe you should reread it as it actually mentions that Senegal is on the West Coast but I didn’t notice anything in it about reduced fishing in Senegal waters by European fishing vessels caused by fear of Somali pirates operating in the Indian ocean.
Apart from the Somali on Somali genocide that is going on in their country that these noble freedom fighters for justice dont seem to be very interested in, how is making lots of money for themselves preventing waste dumping etc ?
They are criminals motivated by money and only money,believe the Robin Hood BS and you are only encouraging the lowlife scum to continue their depredations against ordinary decent working people from all over the world including the Third World.
The first link was a non-Somali example the second link was one about Somalia.
This link was the one about the affect of Somali piracy. Here’s a few morerelevant cites about illegal fishing/dumping for you to peruse.
Flowery rhetorical aside, it doesn’t.
It’s not a matter of believing, robin hood BS, it’s a matter of educating yourself on the political and economical conditions that spawned this extremely recent rise of Somali piracy. To not educate yourself nor examine the initial causes/conditions is to be ignorant of the initial causes/conditions of the central issue. Ignorance will only help you make uninformed decisions, or arguments.
I think that the internal strife may well be much more important to the economic status of Somalia then anything done by the Wicked Westerners.
I would not be stunned with amazement if Somali criminals who are engaged in the piracy/kidnapping etc. have openly admitted that they are motivated by the desire to get rich quick then any nobler motives even to the Western media.
They are opportunitists out to make money without a single philantropic bone in their bodies as evidenced by their hijacking aid shipments.
Not only are they the lowest of the low but they are hypocrites as well who aren’t even man enough to admit to the true motivations of their actions.
Instead its “Poor little me I’m doing this because I’m being oppressed” NOT because I’m a conscienceless piece of human vermin out to make a profit out of other innocent peoples misery.