I don’t know if that’s the first contact. “When we say go…” read to me like something happened before that. I suspect that’s when someone decided to start recording, probably because they wanted evidence that the police were acting inappropriately.
And it sure looks to be like they collected that evidence.
This is factually incorrect, on multiple levels. The information we have says that this was a Battle of the Bands situation, where the bands trade off playing songs after the game is over–i.e. after the buzzer.
Furthermore, there has been no indication that the kids were not safe, nor that they didn’t safely get on the bus. In fact, the only danger we have verified is the cop who used the taser.
When you use counterfactuals, it suggest bias–in this case, bias against the director and/or towards the cops.
But the cop was the instigator. He created the conflict that led to the assault, restraint and arrest of a citizen that was doing his job…leading a high school band. There was no need to interfere with the band’s playing. As I said above, he could have just waited for the song to end and then politely ask the bandleader to shut it down. I question what authority the cop had to order the band to stop.
Man, if getting kids on the bus and home really were the only responsibility school officials had, schooling would look very different…
What information do you have?
So the trope I’ve been flogging in this thread is that people are desperate to engage with everything except the documented facts in the case.
But… was it unclear that I was expressing it in exasperation, sort of an anguished lament? Not like a “hold my beer” kind of situation? I mean, come on.
It’s true we don’t know the actual rules in play on this field in this case. I am making inferences based on my 4 years experience in high school marching band, and 4 years in college band, 2 of those in a leader/director role, plus many other years as a spectator. It would not even occur to me to haggle if police/security told me we needed to leave. It’s already late and we’re tired, nothing we’re doing is worth the energy of even thinking about arguing with a cop. None of this makes sense to me.
Can you tell us on what experience you’re basing your statements?
The documented facts seem to be that the police battered a high school music director because he wouldn’t do whatever they told him to do. Do I have that right?
In fact, no.
Ok, which part of that is incorrect?
I am making inferences about the police actions based on my 8 years of experience as an officer and 33 years of supporting, advising and training international enforcement agencies.
What do I win?
This has been exhaustively asked and answered in this thread. You’re welcome to review it at your leisure, and I’m not interested in narrating it.
I’m speaking to what I know of the duties/expectations of a band director, responding to a question of what was expected and normal in this type of environment. I don’t know what your prior experience tells you about this. Does it tell you that bands normally mill around indeterminately after a game, that they can refuse law enforcement’s commands to leave, that band directors are free to haggle with public safety officers about what they should and shouldn’t do? Tell us, your experience managing high school football games would be very enlightening here, I certainly haven’t done that as an LEO.
And if we’re pulling years of service off the shelf, I would say as a former Army officer, I could maybe judge a peer’s actions in a particular threat environment in the most general terms, but I would not deign to second-guess a peer’s judgment in a threat environment where I was not present or briefed. I’m not making a high-school football game into a brigade-level movement or conducting an AAR, I’m simply saying I’m aware of the situational risks in a high-school football game, and I’m aware of what a high-school band director is able and expected to do, and arguing with the cops is never a part of it.
I have. And you know what? It seems to me like the police battered a high school music director for not doing what they told him to do.
Still not seeing any contrary “facts” from you. Just a deeply ingrained desire to justify the police battering a high school music director for… reasons.
yeah if that’s your takeaway, we’re done here, enjoy your evening.
I have to say I agree with you: it is mind-boggling, this idea that having been in marching band for X amount of years and then positions of authority for X more years is somehow relevant. I mean, heck, I was in marching band all through high school and college, too, and then the military after, but none of that seems to really change the underlying facts as I see them: a high school band director was just sort of doing his thing, directing the band, but some police officers on a power trip didn’t want to wait until the end of the last song, so when they told him to stop and he declined, the police escalated to a battery, and it seems like the only “defense” of their actions is “Well, you shouldn’t argue with the police.”
Which is a touch too close to an endorsement of fascism for my liking.
Yup. Couldn’t agree more. Its not a complex story. I do hope the band director is OK.
This comment really pinged my radar:
“Officer 1: “I got my troops”
Troops? Seriously? You’re not a marine commando in charge of a brigade son. You’re a cop at a high school football game.
This kind of language really helps clarify the mindset of the officer in question.
“I got my troops.” Jesus. Jumped up, self important minor official who thinks he is in WWII with John Wayne. The band director, the band, hell - all the civilians around him are considered the enemy. THIS IS THE PROBLEM.
Or this