I would not expect the lights to be on an automatic timer–that would be a problem if a game went into overtime, as well as presenting a safety hazard if the spectators were delayed from leaving for some other reason. Additionally, this is a small school’s facility. Adamsville only has a population of about 4000, and I’d guess that Minor High probably has an enrollment of around 800, so the home team school would be about the same. There’s not likely much budget for frills like automating lighting for a facility that gets used once a week for part of the year. (When I was in marching band, we had to bring our own bulbs to home games. For fixtures I installed myself, so we could see music we didn’t have memorized yet.)
My guess is that someone manually turned the lights off, either because it was “time” and they couldn’t see–or didn’t care–that people were still present, or because the police told them to. (Which would be reckless and irresponsible of them, so…not surprising to me.)
This question of the lights being cut off interests me in regards to prior posts about possible, “danger,” “fights,” etc. If it was so urgent that everyone needed to be cleared from the stadium, and that the band stop playing NOW, why did the lights get cut? No matter who did it, it was completely irresponsible particularly if it was urgent to clear the stadium. In an emergency of the sort referenced above, panic, trampling, and falls were all but guaranteed.
This makes me doubt that there was any clear and present danger that warranted an urgent and immediate cease of music, and evacuation. I mean seriously, are the, “troops” sweeping everyone’s asses out, considered an emergency or even urgent for the sake of safety?
My impression from the body-cam footage is that about the only people left in the stadium at that point were the two bands and their auxiliaries (in their respective places on opposite sides of the field), several people on the field itself (maybe doing cleanup tasks?), and the cops. Based on the timestamps TokyoBayer cited above, there had been sufficient time (in my estimation) for the spectators to clear out, although its possible some were lingering–parents of a few of the band members might have stuck around, for example.
There’s no basis in the video for suggestions that there was some sort of incipient conflict or danger brewing that the cops were trying to head off. The bands were widely separated, not interacting at all, except via a musical competition, and there wasn’t anyone else there to do any of the dangerous things speculated about in this thread. The only hazards appear to have been getting tased and navigating crowded bleachers in the dark while carrying instruments.
No, it says he was tased because he resisted arrest and was physically aggressive.
I’m wondering when, exactly, it became okay to disobey police instructions and physically resist arrest. When, exactly did criminals become the victims? I guess it was a gradual process. This seems to be yet another example of that.
What crime was he being arrested for? He wasn’t engaging in disorderly conduct: He was doing his job, in the place and time when he was supposed to be doing his job. He wasn’t disturbing the peace. He might have been disrespecting the police, but that’s not a crime. If he wasn’t being arrested for some crime, then he couldn’t have been resisting arrest. Absent some crime that they were arresting him for, the police’s actions aren’t an arrest, they’re just assault.
And even if he were actually being arrested, just standing there isn’t resisting arrest.
He wasn’t just standing there, he was physically using his muscles to try and prevent the police from putting handcuffs on him. That much should be unambiguous from the video.
One of the cops also claimed in the video the bandleader attempted to hit him. There were too many people in the way for the released video to confirm or deny this claim.
…I mean, one of the cops would say that. But I personally stopped believing what any American cop said a very long time ago. I’m not going to start believing them now.
Did you read the thread or watch any of the videos? the stadiums were cleared except for the bands.
I wasn’t clear enough. I meant that the “powers that be” had set 22:00 as the ending time and then it was enforced by the police coming to “sweep their asses” out of the bleachers and stadium and as part of that someone turned off the lights.
The police claims have been inconsistent. Initially it was that he pushed and this one (with multiple witnesses saying such did not occur), but let us assume, as a hypothetical such happened. Believe that single officer version and disbelieve everyone else.
Is the circumstance of an unarmed man of normal size surrounded by multiple police officers with no weapon believed to be accessible perceived as attempting hit an officer (not hitting but apparently allegedly unable to do so) a proper indication indication for Taser use?
Or should, as the USDOJ guideline suggests, Taser use be resorted to only if the subject is not reasonably expected to be restrained with lesser force and is an imminent risk of danger/harm to the police, others, or themselves?
Is it your opinion that any level of resisting arrest or “physical aggression” warrants Taser use, even when the alleged aggression is of no possible risk to harm anyone, with many officers being present and the crime being the subject is being arrested for is exclusively “failure to follow a lawful order” and not demonstrating proper respect?
Even if a fight broke out. Even if there were a gun in the stadium. What difference would it have made whether or not the band was wrapping up their last song? This is such a bizarre hypothesis. Not that it might have been possible for a fight to break out, but that the band, playing in its proper place, not especially close to this hypothetical altercation, somehow needed to be stopped because… Seriously, if there’s a fight, why the hell aren’t the police over there, and not harassing a band director.
Yes, he was verbally objecting to being arrested, and he didn’t put his arms back to be cuffed. And he was standing still. It’s quite clear in the video that right before the taser bolt he was standing still with his arms at his sides.
He wasn’t attacking the police. He wasn’t threatening to attack the police, either by his words or his posture. He was just standing there saying no.
When did that become a valid reason for the police to use potentially deadly force? What world do we live in?
When did it become okay for police to issue random and inappropriate orders and then assault ordinary citizens who don’t immediately comply? When did it become okay for police to jump immediately to violence without trying to resolve a situation peacefully? When did it become okay for police to proactively break the peace and then attack with potentially deadly weapons?
But in answer to the question, the earliest cite i can give is the civil rights rallies of the 60s, where protestors were taught to lie down both so they couldn’t be (truthfully) accused of attacking the police and also to make it harder to actually arrest them.
Never, but they’ve gotten away with it ever since “police” were invented; no witnesses, no video/audio evidence, protection by the power structure, etc. That has been strongly addressed because every citizen and his iPhone is an on-the-scene reporter.
My concern is the very strong anti-law enforcement sentiment I see in social media and even in a few of the posters we have here, and I think this has contributed to the increasingly bold criminal acts reported on a daily basis, at least here in Chicagoland.
The police stop an erratic and dangerous driver. He refuses to obey police instructions to shut off his engine and exit the vehicle. The haters immediately harp, “The police should de-escalate the situation!” How exactly? Perhaps a series of counseling sessions by the side of the road? Maybe threaten to call his momma and tattle on him if he doesn’t obey? What a joke.
My feeling is simply this. Crime should be a dangerous profession. Being arrested, wounded, shot dead, whatever, is part of the risk factor as far as I’m concerned. I’ll save my pity for the countless victims of the criminals who use our legal system as a turnstile to go right back out into society and victimize more innocent people.
How do parents deescalate when their toddler throws a temper tantrum? Seriously, there are lots of ways. That driver is probably drunk. Yes, you should risk consequences when you drive drunk, but the police shouldn’t be increasing the odds of a death on the highway. They should be decreasing it.
And leading a band at a high school football game is criminal, now?
The police literally created the dangerous situation. If they had done nothing at all, the last song would have ended in a minute and everyone would have wrapped up and gone home. Apparently, the band director even told them that. The easiest way to “deescalate” is to avoid creating trouble.
Well, you have clearly explained the source of your concern:
I was taught that the police were there to help, to keep us safe. And without those iPhones and security cameras and body cams, i might still believe it. Now it’s clear to me that the police are a dangerous force that needs to be reined in.
And that’s why I’m advocating for a large fine issued to this police department. To attempt to rein in police excesses. Which are, frankly, much more dangerous to me and you and the rest of us then some band director who didn’t immediately offer up his arms to be cuffed.
Police should be able to respected. Respecting police as a goal is not served when standards of professional conduct are ignored and when ignored is excused. Respecting the police as a goal is not served when the police culture views the public as enemy combatants (to be cleared by the troops for example) and every interaction a personal threat unless proven otherwise. Especially if the public is Black.
And let’s be clear. In these interactions the police are the professionals. Not the person wanting to finish their job and being barked commands at for no obvious reason.
As a professional the first step in my getting treated with respect is to treat others respectfully. Especially those who enter the interaction with an obvious chip on their shoulder. It happens several times a day. That’s the first step to de escalating.
And as a parent I would advocate dismissing the band leader from his job. If I was a parent of one of those band kids I am trusting the adults there to supervise and protect my kid. That includes the adults taking direction from those designated as security for the event, police officers, without questioning them and challenging them.
Reason is hypothetical safety reasons. If the officers detect a threat (could be weather related, gunman, fight, fire, etc) they need people to move now! If I found out the adult tasked with the safety of my kid was NOT taking direction and instead challenging those designated with that role and blatantly disregarding their instruction I would want them fired yesterday.
And if heaven forbid something did happen and kids got harmed because some band leader decided he knew what was best you just know everybody and their brother would be pitchforks and torches demanding the heads of schoolboard members.
As a parent I would apologize to the band leader for the excessive and unnecessary aggression by the police. As a former enforcement officer who has worked closely with multiple enforcement agencies for more than 30 years, I would be considering the appropriate discipline for one or more of the officers involved.