Frankly, I’m sad that American soldiers lost their lives. Bt if this accelerates our leaving Afghanistan, its a good thing. These people want to live in the 7th century, let them. Anybody who would resort to violence because of cartoons published in a foreign newspaper (or some books being burned) is beyond hope.
I found this which includes his condemnation, but the bit about convicting the publishers is not mentioned. Do you have another source for that?
Clinton urges EU to convict publishers of caricatures
PUBLISHERS OF CARTOONS BE CONVICTED: CLINTON
- I remember it said at the time. A Google produces those. I know nothing of the quality of the sites. But on further thinking, I think perhaps it is likely that his words regarding the prosecuting of the publishers were elaborations made by the Pakistani newspapers.
It would be a very big deal.
Can you provide me some evidence of this? Based on my limited experience working in Muslim majority countries, including Afghanistan, I have never witnessed any evidence that most people would be okay with desecrating a Bible.
They’re obviously not very concerned about destroying Buddhist symbols. Here’s some account of what happens to Bibles in Saudi Arabia:
No. As should be obvious.
Next.
You realize the withdrawal date was set years ago, right?
And I agree that a lot of countries were completely wrong in their response to the Danish cartoons controversy - and we should remind ourselves that much of that controversy was deliberately incited by hardline imams. Insensitivity is not an excuse for rioting and killing people, and the right of people to express themselves in a free society is much, much more important than being nice to every religion.
That’s how I see it. Some malcontents with too much time on their hands find out that Qurans are being burned and get pissed, without a full understanding of the details. Some marching, a little rock throwing and a bored foreign correspondent all in the same place = “Afghans hate US for burning Qurans.” We probably could have been more careful so should apologize, do better next time and move on.
Imagine the Iranian embassy decided to get rid of its leftover Fourth of July flags by burning them, in the correct and approved manner, and the “Save our Flag” march also happened to be in town, drunk, with nothing to do. A protest could turn into a “riot” with the right camera angle. Iran should apologize even though they did nothing wrong.
It’s one thing to print comics in Denmark, which was specifically designed to piss people off, making the creators trolls, and a whole other thing to burn the books for strategic reasons. Sure, they shouldn’t have burned them, rather just removed them and disposed of them more normally, but it’s the intent that matters.
Of course, it should go without saying that, if the trading secrets thing was a lie, then these people are bad, too.
Oh, and getting upset about the U.S. flag being burned is stupid, too. Doesn’t mean I think trolls should burn flags.
I don’t think they were specifically designed to piss people off, and I’m not sure it would matter even if they were.
Is it only Americans that think the rights guaranteed by their government hold true for everyone in the rest of the world? These books were burned in the Bagram airbase, in Afghanistan, and it’s undermining our political and diplomatic objectives.
The issue of Freedom of speech couldn’t be more irrelevant.
I just wanted to point out that it is perfectly acceptable in the Islamic religion to dispose of the Qur’an by burning. It is also acceptable to bury it or to dispose of it in running water. However, in my mind, burning it is the preferred method of disposal. I’d also like to point out that within the Qur’an and the Hadith (Traditions and sayings of the Prophet Muhammad) there are many references to manners around asking for forgiveness and accepting apologies. I think most muslims around the world who understand their religion and believe that the burning was an honest mistake rather than a devious/malicious act consider the matter closed. Others, obviously do not.
To understand those who consider the matter far from closed, it might be instructive to look at this episode within the context of yet another mistake in a 10+ year record of cock-ups (or, as the straw that broke the camels back) - dropping bombs on entire villages, rounding up men and imprisoning/torturing them, killing and alienating those who would otherwise have supported the US, driving convoys through and trampling through farmer’s fields, the occasional rape of a young woman or child by an errant US soldier, stealing jewelry, confiscating cash, firing missiles on funerals, weddings, etc.
Frankly, my thought is I would much rather hear the US Govt apologize for the murder of over 200,000 Afghans, Pakistanis and Iraqis over the past 10 years than hear an apology for the accidental burning of a sacred text. Again - context!
Do you have a source for that? According to the link I posted earlier, some Muslims think you can burn the book in some circumstances, but that doesn’t mean just anybody can light a Quran bonfire and it’s OK. It’s the same situation with the American flag, I think.
While it has been subverted in recent years by just this sort of bronze age bully, the existence of the UN Human Rights Council would suggest that this is not purely a US invention.
Bull. Fucking. Shit. They have been setting fire to cars and shops and twenty people have died. They are part of an international mob that hurts and kills innocent people to force others to treat their idols with reverence.
And how else would you describe the emotion behind shouting “Death to America!” than hate?
Sorry if I gave the impression that “just anybody can light a Qur’an bonfire and it’s OK” - it isn’t OK (in Islam) and it was not my intent to assert that it is. As with so many things in Islam, the act itself is less important than the intent behind it. What is one’s intent in burning the book? Is it to dispose of it respectfully, to prevent it winding up on a trash heap and to return it to nature once it has served it’s purpose? or, is it to demonstrate disapproval of the book/religion and possibly incite trouble?
I’m afraid I don’t have a reputable online source for what I stated about burning the Qur’an. In fact, most of the sources that state it’s OK appear to be anti-Muslim/racist/bigoted websites. I have seen my late mother dispose of a stack of Qur’an chapter books that had become old and were falling apart at the binding. I recall her initially burning 1/2 page at a time on the gas stove using a laboratory gauze placed over the burner, before deciding that was not going to work. A couple of days later, she started a fire in an old Wesson oil drum in the back garden with logs and a little fuel, then placed a few pages from each book respectfully onto the pyre every couple of minutes. I recall her trying very hard to ensure that no pages flew away in the wind, and when they did she would chase after them to try and catch them and put them back in the drum. It was a solemn affair, punctuated by her reciting a Qur’anic verse typically stated on hearing about one’s death “All things belong to God, and to God they must return”. It ended in the ashes being doused in water and buried at the end of our back garden, in a bed of blackberry bushes.
I suppose then, the source for this is me, so take it for what it’s worth. Would I dispose of a Qu’ran by burning now? probably not, but only because of the charged atmosphere around the subject (the Terry Jones affair and now the current crisis, etc) puts a bad taste in my mouth.
Well, for one thing, we used to be a lot more ecumenical with our outreach programs. We killed a lot of Buddhists in Asia, some atheists in Asia, bunch of Catholics in Central America, but not all that many Muslims. Now, its pretty much all them.
How many innocent civilians died in George and Dicks Excellent Military Adventure. We don’t know. They don’t either, but in our case, its because we don’t much care. They hate, and we are indifferent. Which is worse?
All the international councils and organizations on the planet won’t change the minds of the people we are trying to win over, or change the laws they have enacted to govern themselves.
Bronze Age bully indeed, pretend Afghanis are stationed in an airbase in Texas and they mistakenly burn Bibles. You think FOX News is going to concede because of Freedom of Speech?
Read your own post that I was quoting. You did not ask “Would they be successful?”, you asked “Do they think they should be?”
I think FOX News isn’t going to start setting fire to cars and storefronts.
No, they corrupt minds. Or have you forgotten?