Right. That seems reasonable. But, shouldn’t the Afghans be held to a similar standard? Are Muslims not breaching that standard when they call for and execute the murder of European journalists that publish pics of Muhammad, in Europe? Or threaten death to European authors; or riot and kill due to the Quran-burning of some american deep-south idiot minister?
I think we mostly agree. But, I’m getting to the point where I believe there is an unbreachable gulf of differences between “western” and Islamic cultures. I’m ardently opposed to “nation-building” and “exporting democracy” and imposing other western values on the Muslim world, but, there are human rights issues, and oil issues, and military concerns. . . I don’t think our relationship is going anywhere. And I don’t think that rioting and killing over Quran-burning helps anyone.
Westboro is considered insane even by other Evangelicals and fundamentalist Christians. And Westboro hasn’t killed anyone as pointed out-that is a huge moral difference.
Westboro, if they had the power to activate violence against gay people, IMO would do just that, and then stand back and say it was the lords will as punishment for…whatever. Then are they not more like people who would burn the Koran, in a place where such a thing might activate trouble?
They might be the type who thinks “Let God punish them” and at any rate 1) they have not done any violence and 2) were it not for their tremendous funds apparently in their ability to go to almost anywhere in America to picket they would be nobodies not like the deranged mobs in Cabul.
Reading some of this … it’s as if the past 10 years of occupation didn’t happen.
It’s really quite interesting that you can put some people through a formal education and they learn stuff well, put them in the non-academic world… .and they have nothing to learn - they know all they need and ain’t nothing gonna change that.
It does not seem that westboro believes “let god punish them” if they feel the need to promote hatred with their actions. Hate speech does have a hand in violence, and your moral high ground for a christian hate group targeting gay and lesbian people is bizarre.
I agree with you, too many do not practice what they preach, they want others to do what hey don’t seem to do. Jesus is quoted as telling them not to judge,to be good to their enemies, to love thir enemies,etc. but too many do not live as they claim to believe, and that is not just Christians but other religions as well, the Muslims like other religions fight among themselves, each thinking everyone should think and do as they are supposed to.I wonder if that makes them feel superior?
As I understand it, many in Muslim countries are not educated, and are not allowed to think for themselves,one would think that taking a life over a book, land, or building is placing a human below such things, to me a person is holier (worth more) than any material thing, but all do not think as I do.I can understand their being up set, just as we do if they burn our flag, but we don’t go and kill someone over that. But they are raised in a different way of thinking, it seems okay to kill people who are trying to help them to a better life, but their leaders seem to not care if they kill the people who are supposed to be their allies.
“Causes offense” is a pretty general remark, though. The amount of offense ranges from “Well, I don’t like that.” to murder; just saying, in response to a specific situation, that offense in general is to be expected simplifies the argument out of usefulness.
As I said before, if you perform an act that you know will have a response, even if that response is irrational, you take on some responsibility for that responding act. I don’t accuse those who burnt Qurans of murder, if that’s what you’re suggesting. Nor do I assign them any blame for any deaths. I’m not entirely sure how you’re reading “that doesn’t justify the killings” and my post that you quoted pointing out the burners didn’t intend any offense amounts to “shifting the blame”. Perhaps you were speaking generally, and not specifically to me?
I have my doubts that you will be able to, but think in terms of an American response to flag burning done by an unwelcome occupying foreign military force.
Shakespeare got it in Henry VI, Part 3 when Lord Clifford tells the king "To whom do Lions cast their gentle looks? Not to the beast that would usurp their den. The smallest worm will turn being trodden on…
www.uruknet.info/?p=m86054&size=1&l=e
No, you don’t take on the responsibility for acts of irrational violence. It’s 100% the fault of those who commit the act. End of story. The road you’re suggesting we travel is a dead end.
But wouldn’t that reasoning mean that people who provoke violence and work on its behalf are wholly innocent, seeing as all the responsibility belongs to the individual actor?
So you would blame the person who yells fire in a theater? Clearly, any injuries are the fault of the mob who trampled the victims. First Amendment! Cold, Dead Hands!
And what if it had been deliberate? I’m satisfied it wasn’t, but what if it were? If someone is burning a Koran with the deliberate and calculated intention of infuriating Muslims, what then?