No problem. If you want to get laid, and are unfortunately not able to, then there is probably a reason you are being kept out of the gene pool. 
The only issue I have is the fact that it would well and truly suck if I came home and found one in my mailbox, when it was meant for one of my other complex neighbours. (which happens quite frequently- general mail, not hooker postcards)
This, not so bad. Sex offender registries. Those are bad.
Why? Sex offender registries include people proven to have done it beyond a reasonable doubt. The postcards are sent to people someone thought was doing it. What if the person writing down the information got the license plate number wrong?
I’m not necessarily arguing that offender registries are good, just that this is worse, in that there are no checks for correctness.
I’ll bite- Why are they bad?
Actually, the fact that not everyone who got a postcard is a john makes it better because it’s not so bad if you receive a postcard. You have plausible deniability. If you’re convicted, you could still be innocent, but noone will be thinking of that.
But the reason registries are worse is that they’re not just one-off thing or an “oops, my one neighbor saw a bright thing in my mail.” They’re permanent and easily accessible.
The biggest reason the registries are bad, of course, is that public’s attitude toward “sex offenderes” (the term being defined by the people who actually get the label, not some a priori notion of what those words might mean). To put someone on the registry is to throw them to the mob, the same mob that in a different age would be apt to lynch or kill but today commits its violence without the show.
Sex offender registries are cruel and unusual punishment, in the full sense of the phrase. The public’s stance of “you can’t treat evil people evilly… they’re evil and this is just ‘punishment’” notwistanding. We don’t do this to our murderers, but when it comes to sex… anything goes.
There’s no need to even mention that the vast majority of sex crimes are actually consentual and, in my opinion, are not crimes in the proper sense of the word. (There could still be reason to make them illegal, like parking on the wrong side of the street, but the vast majority of sex offenders aren’t “evil”)
Can you provide a cite for that? It sounds very implausible to me.
Damn, just think of the fun you could have with this tactic. Find out what’s on the cards, and get the right paperstock. Then start mailing the mayor, the preachers, the chief of police. Call the news people.
You could even send a card to any notable person in town, only get the address wrong so the neighbor gets it. Loads of fun.
Perhaps he’s referring to statutory rape ? Not to mention various places that still have laws on the books for such things as possession of dildos. And in the case of older people, they may simply have been gay in the wrong place and gotten labeled as a sex offender. Altough I think that “most sex crimes are actually consensual” is an exaggeration. But I also think that there are many cases of false confessions, false accusations, and just plain bad trials.
page 14 of this DoJ data states that in 1995 there were ~30,000 forcible rapes, and ~120,000 other sex offenses, defined to include statutory rape, offenses against chastity, common decency, and morals. There’s no data by category, however. Prostitution isn’t included either (don’t know if that puts you on the registry, but probably).
I may be wrong that “most sex crimes are consentual,” but that can be fixed if you stretch my words to crimes that included no partners at all. Eg, flashing, getting caught jerking off somewhere, or possessing illegal porn. You might be thinking, “hey, all those things should be illegal.” And I’m not saying they shouldn’t be. But lifetime public humiliation is cruel and unusual. Our society thinks no punishment is enough when the deed has sex in it.
[QUOTE=Alex_Dubinsky]
…But lifetime public humiliation is cruel and unusual. QUOTE]
And the lifetime of humiliation the victim feels is just fine?
I will not “stretch [your] words to crimes that included no partners at all” if those crimes do, in fact, have unwilling partners. That would be asinine. If a man exposes himself to someone in a sexual manner, or watches a woman on the subway, and starts to masturbate, that is a sex crime, and it has an unwilling “partner” involved, someone who may be very distressed by what happened. And while sometimes statutory rape is the result of overzealous police criminalizing normal teenage sex, you will have to come up with some data if you want to say that is more that an anomaly. Most statutory rapists are criminals.
I understand there are many false accusations, bad trials, and just plain bad laws. If you had said “Many people convicted of sex crimes are actually not a danger to society, and publicly shaming them is cruel and ineffective,” I would have agreed with you. I also have a problem with sex offender registries, because of many of the things Der Trihs listed. But what you did was say that most sex crimes are actually consensual, and that is not only wrong, but it belittles the experience the victims of sex crimes have to endure.
You bring up humiliation and shame of the victim. That is, in fact, often a powerful outcome. (Not so much when some guy jacks off on the train. That’s merely creepy. But something like homosexual incent at a young age… definately.) So let me rephrase myself, the vast majority of sex offenses are creepy trifles, but a portion of concentual encounters does leave lasting damage.
But about this humiliation and shame… Not that it makes it go away, but its cause is not the criminal, not the act, but the society. For example, these kids who gets jaked off by their uncles. They’ll think about it all their life no matter what (well, unless our society suddenly accepts sex with uncles, of course). But having other people know about it, having social workers come in and talk to you about it endlessly, and have neighbors and adults look at you, all of them knowing. That’s what will really fuck you up. A woman can have her vagina ripped open by a melon (or a man get a probe inserted up his ass), but it’s totally ok in a medical context. Yet a woman who suffers the tiny dick of a rapist is in shock. The difference is real. But the difference is entirely in the mind. It’s something to think about. Fear is what’s to fear the most, and a lot of time when we make a big deal about these sex offenses, we’re actually making it a lot worse for the victims themselves.
Nope, you missed my point entirely. In the OP, the guerrilla mailers did not say, “We saw you picking up hookers on my street. Go do it somewhere else!” Their cards said, “We know you’ve been looking for hookers. Stop it!”
As I said in Post 2:
If you just want the riffraff to find another place to be riffraff, there are effective ways to do it.
Badger (badger, badger) your local politicians and local police to get the hookers to move along. Let them know this is something you and your neighbors really care about.
Set up bright lights and cameras on your front porch. Send the pix to the aforementioned pols and cops.
Play classical music from your front porch. Yes, it works.
Get the local churches involved. Take preachers with you when you confront the sex workers. Offer your porch or front room as free rehearsal space for gospel groups. Stand among the hookers and read the Bible to the johns.
That’s right, you have to have courage. Courage to talk to your neighbors, to cops, to city councilmen, and to ministers of churches you don’t go to. None of these cowardly anonymous postcards.
Just because your street has been the place to rent a hooker since before you hoity-toity folks moved in, doesn’t mean it has to stay that way. Those floozies can work anywhere. You have to make it uncomfortable to work your street.
If you want to stop the sex trade in your whole city, I have no advice for you. You will fail. :smack:
Don’t base any part of your argument on quoting what was a paraphrase on my part. I don’t remember (if I ever knew) the precise wording on the cards.
Ok, so you actually don’t consider sex crimes to be “real” crimes, unless it involves homosexuality. Well, thankfully, society disagrees with you and these “trifles” will continue to be prosecuted.
I personally have questions about the appropriateness of the sex offender registries, but none of my questions involve wondering whether rape is somehow the same as a pap smear. There is nothing else I can say to you without moving into the pit.
Old Town East resident here! Lets hear it for The Hood* - WOO WOO WOO!
Although a resident in OTE, the events referenced in the op were prior to me living here. I did confirm that the post-card effort did happen here. One point to clarify, the post-cards stated that the vehicle was spotted in an area frequented by prostitutes.
I have to admit to rather conflicted feelings about this.
1.) I am for the legalization and REGULATION of prostitution.
2.) I do not like these type of tactics, taken at face-value.
However…
Although I am for the legalization of prostitution, it is a fact that with street prostitution (as it exists today) along comes a whole lot of other crime. I do not want prostitutes working in my neighborhood and I do not want the other criminal activity that comes with it. I am a home owner, I love this neighborhood. I have invested significant amounts of money in my home as have most of my neighbors. This goes beyond the purchase price - renovations of 100+ year old homes is expensive in time and money. I want, eventually, a return on that investment. I want a pedestrian friendly, diverse, historic neighborhood. I want small business owners to come to my neighborhood and open coffee shops, restaurants, retail stores. Crime, including prostitution, are roadblocks to that happening.
Local law enforcement and politicians cannot clean-up the problems here in OTE on their own. You can call the police (and we do) every time you see a prostitute working or a drug dealer selling drugs, etc., but that is not enough to bring about change.
Those who criticize the post-card tactics would likely change their mind if the prostitutes were working in their neighborhood.
As with most urban areas with a higher concentration of poor, there are not cut-and-dry solutions to the problems of crime and prostitution. I am fortunate, I moved into OTE long after the “bad days” had passed. Certainly, we still have problems, but I am less likely to judge the actions of those who had to deal with far greater problems before me. Especially when I benefit from their actions with a much nicer, cleaner, friendler neighborhood.
MeanJoe
Hey, where are your extraneous Es? OldE TownE. Sheesh.