I seem to have utterly failed to make any meaningful point here; could a moderator please close this thread.
Mangetout, I think you’ve made a very meaningful point. What I get out of the OP is that your best bet for success is a mix of the temporal and the divine. God can, and sometimes does, work without our intervention at all. Man can, and sometimes does, work without divine intervention. But sometimes, things coalesce so that there is a seemingly perfect blend of what God is doing and what man is doing. It’s a great world!
The Bible says “Thou shall not put the Lord your God to the test.”
Expecting God to solve all your problems is putting God to the test.
I don’t expect God to solve all of my problems. When I have a specific problem, I pray for guidance so that I might solve the problem myself, within the framework of His will for me.
Sure, but you have to look at it from the viewpoint that deity is metaphor for the self:
This group of people prayed to deity to intercede in order to make the electricity to come on. An electrician just happened to be nearby and fixed the problem. The prayer group perceives this as a true intercession by deity and thus further confirming the power that comes from them getting together as a community and praying to deity for help.
Thus the ultimate purpose of prayer: self-empowerment.
BTW, Mangetout, I’m sure your production of Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat was delightful. I just couldn’t resist the image of God saying, “Oh, no, I’m not letting another church group put on that piece of crap!” and killing the lights. If he’d been serious about it, he would have sent a tornado, instead!
“Trust in Allah, but tie your camel.”
-Arab proverb
I think what’s making people’s head explode is not so much the prayer as the guy who said, “Don’t call the electrician.” I also think that God, as Lord of the natural world, has ordained that you cannot push 100 amps through a 32 amp fuse, and that it is foolish to ignore His will. What’s up with the speedy electrician is anybody’s guess.
I think there was a meaningful point here. I’m not sure what it is, though. Part of it is in the reaction of the people to it…
Frankly, I think the op is a koan or parable. It’s worth meditating on, and thinking about what you get out of it.
A combination of prayer and action is not the answer, since the people praying were against the electrician coming in the first place. The action of calling the electrician alone was the cause of your “salvation”(and the audience’s grief :)), and IMHO the prayer was at best meaningless. In fact, if you truly believe that God might have been a factor, consider the possibility that He might have delayed the help even further to teach the dunderheads in the group a well deserved lesson.
I disagree. I contend, once again, that each person in the group felt empowered by what they perceived to be divine intercession.
That is most certainly not meaningless, at least to the group.
That’s not quite right. We only know that “He was told to have faith and not to make the call.” We don’t know whether all the people praying held that view. A majority may well have thought that calling the electrician was a good idea, but chose not to confront a fellow church member over his words. Maybe some of them even prayed for an electrician to come. We don’t know.
I was reminded of a different joke:
Q. How many fundamentalists does it take to change a light bulb?
A. [suspiciously] The Bible doesn’t say anything about light bulbs…
Until now, I thought it was hyperbole. I was mistaken.
Very interesting story, Mangetout! I think I get your point (as long as your point is, don’t let the fundies run the show!), and I hope the production went well.
Daniel
I meant as far as getting the electricity fixed. Personal “empowerment” wasn’t what was needed-real empowerment was.
I don’t mean to be stubborn Czarcasm, but what the prayer group needed can’t be discerned by you and I.
Obviously, the most logical solution would have been to just call an electrician. I’m only attempting to give a rational explantion for the prayer group’s actions.