The President's second term: to the Left or to the Right

[Cyberhwk]

@Flyer

Not necessarily. Some justices stay on past the time that they should retire.
William O. Douglas - Wikipedia

I think that was Second Stone’s point though. Those issues are Ginsburg’s passion so she’ll probably be less likely to stay on the bench just because when she can guarantee her successor will follow in her footsteps by retiring now.

[Qin_Shi_Huangdi]

@Acid_Lamp

There you go. No need to go further.

We’ve done this a million times but I’ll see if I can make it really clear and crystallized.

What is good or ethical to me personally, is not the same as what is good or ethical to others, or for society in general. I personally do not feel that it is ethical to abort physically viable fetuses, but it isn’t my place to make my personal stance into law. I am not the morality police. That is a decision best made by the mother, and (hopefully) the father; taking into account whatever ethical principles that shape their decision making. Since biology is unfair to humans in this regard, the only logical choices left is to leave that choice up to the mother who carries the fetus.

If one generally believes that abortion is murder (rather than on the level of say putting your dog on the roof of a car), then as government’s basic duty is to protect people from other people, abortion should be banned.

[quote=“Evil_Captor, post:36, topic:640318”]

He’s already said what he’s gonna do:

-Give up pieces of Medicaid and Medicare in his “Grand Bargain” with the Repubicans.

Good, I hope so. Its unrealistic to maintain the same retirement age (65) that came to be over a century ago under Bismarck’s term when lifespan was significantly shorter, the population was growing steadily, and most people were employed in physically demanding jobs.

[MandaJo]

@Qin_Shi_Huangdi

Good, I hope so. Its unrealistic to maintain the same retirement age (65) that came to be over a century ago under Bismarck’s term when lifespan was significantly shorter, the population was growing steadily, and most people were employed in physically demanding jobs.

And people currently in physically demanding jobs can just suck it! I actually think this is a serious problem: it’s feasible to work in a cubical until 68 or 70. I don’t think it’s nearly as feasible to keep working as a plumber or a factory worker or a preschool teacher. What would those people do?

[Acid_Lamp]

@Qin_Shi_Huangdi

If one generally believes that abortion is murder (rather than on the level of say putting your dog on the roof of a car), then as government’s basic duty is to protect people from other people, abortion should be banned.

I don’t want to hijack this thread, but this bears response. If we need to open another thread, let me know I’ll happily do so.

Qin, your point is well taken but it ignores basic issues of biology and practicality, something that those wishing to abolish abortion will need to address in a serious manner if they hope to make headway. Take a look at THIS chart. Fetal viability starts at around month 6, at about a 50% survival rate with current technology. The chart shows that the vast majority of abortions take place far before that benchmark, and most occur so early in the term that there is no chance of survival at all. So while we can have a philosophical debate about personhood and rights, it is really rather pointless to do so when the fetus/embryo concerned is unable to exist without the biological necessity of a woman’s body. This is where the argument of personal autonomy over one’s body comes into play. You will find that many on the pro choice side would be comfortable with banning late term abortions, but are unwilling to create a legal status that allows the government to interfere with a woman’s right to her own body and medical decisions.

[Qin_Shi_Huangdi]

@MandaJo

And people currently in physically demanding jobs can just suck it! I actually think this is a serious problem: it’s feasible to work in a cubical until 68 or 70. I don’t think it’s nearly as feasible to keep working as a plumber or a factory worker or a preschool teacher. What would those people do?

I agree that’s why I’d argue for different retirement ages based on whether the said person are in occupations which are physically demanding or not.

@Acid_Lamp

I don’t want to hijack this thread, but this bears response. If we need to open another thread, let me know I’ll happily do so.

Qin, your point is well taken but it ignores basic issues of biology and practicality, something that those wishing to abolish abortion will need to address in a serious manner if they hope to make headway. Take a look at THIS chart. Fetal viability starts at around month 6, at about a 50% survival rate with current technology. The chart shows that the vast majority of abortions take place far before that benchmark, and most occur so early in the term that there is no chance of survival at all. So while we can have a philosophical debate about personhood and rights, it is really rather pointless to do so when the fetus/embryo concerned is unable to exist without the biological necessity of a woman’s body. This is where the argument of personal autonomy over one’s body comes into play. You will find that many on the pro choice side would be comfortable with banning late term abortions, but are unwilling to create a legal status that allows the government to interfere with a woman’s right to her own body and medical decisions.

I wasn’t trying to get into a debate on abortion. I was trying to depict the reasoning of the pro-life side.

[Ibn_Warraq]

@Leaffan

Even the left-most President in the US would be considered right wing in the rest of the democratic world.

Really?

Obama would be considered right-wing in Israel, Turkey or Lebanon?

Would you mind explaining why?

Thanks.

[BrokenBriton]

LOL. Turkey and Lebanon. Whoo, that showed him.

[Alessan]

@Ibn_Warraq

Really?

Obama would be considered right-wing in Israel, Turkey or Lebanon?

Would you mind explaining why?

Thanks.

In terms of economics, Israelis would consider him a libertarian.