The Prestige - Thoughts and Spoilers

RogueGF and I saw this last night. We really enjoyed it. It had a great period feel. The reveals had a good pace. Christian Bale is slowly working his way towards the top of my list of favorite actors. Michael Caine was good as always, as was Jackman. I spotted Ricky Jay (Deadwood fans should remember him) and Andy Serkis (LotR fans will know him), but completely missed David Bowie under makeup as Nikola Tesla.

At the end of the movie Michael Caine repeats his speech about the three parts of a magic act. He says to pay attention or you might miss it. I have a feeling that we missed it. Anyone want to take a guess at it or help enlighten me?

Btw, if you are any way into period pieces or magic, I recommend this movie. Actually, I pretty much just recommend the movie. Sure it’s not hard to see the reveals coming, but it was entertaining just the same.

Sorry, I somehow missed on the forum. This needs to be moved to Cafe Society.

Just saw the movie at the early matinee. I have mixed feelings about it. (I wonder how close it is to the novel?)

Very handsomely produced, and a fascinating subject. I was looking for Ricky Jay; it would seem silly to make a movie about 19th century magicians without him being involved (I highly recommend his book Learned Pigs and Fireproof Women).

Here’s my problem (guess I’ll put this in a box):[spoiler]I didn’t like introducing an impossible fantasy element, something that would be absolutely world-changing if it were true, and then using it just as a plot device. It’s hard to get behind the idea that Nikola Tesla invents a truly miraculous machine – and the protagonist only wants to use it for a magic act. Especially since the act consists of pretending that the machine does something impossible that it doesn’t do (teleportation) instead of the other impossible thing it actually does do (creating exact duplicates of objects, animals or even living humans). Kind of makes the revelation that Borden was twins less interesting.

And the idea of one Angier after another committing suicide (or homicide, the first time) rather than allow two of himself to live has deep philosophical implications that aren’t really gone into.[/spoiler] Maybe I’m missing something basic because I’m out of sorts today. I wonder if the novel goes deeper into all this stuff?

But…

[spoiler]By that point Angier didn’t really want to use this machine for the sake of a magic act. The entire purpose of his last run of shows was to get revenge on Borden. Considering the cost of each performance, Angier seems to be incredibly more morally bankrupt than Borden.

As far as going into the implications of performing the act, I believe in his death monologue, Angier mentions that each time he performed the trick he had to convince himself that he was the one being teleported, not drowned. That’s a pretty twisted thing to have to do if you ask me.

I can see someone knocking the movie down several points for introducing fantasy. Personally, I was prepared to suspend that disbelief. I actually thought it was a nice touch that the character that created the fantasy invention was Nikola Tesla.

So, why was the extra Angier shown at the end? Was the extra Angier dead as well (as I thought)? RogueGF seemed to think the extra was alive. When was it created? I have a feeling this has to do with the final reveal that I’m not getting.[/spoiler]

I realize that I have spoilers in the title, but I figure it would be good to get a few posts into this before putting things out in the open.

We saw this today. And my problem was not that you might miss something. It’s that the story stooped so low to make sure nobody missed it.

[spoiler]Tesla’s machine creates duplicates. Hence all the hats in a pile on the lawn, the multiple black cats running around his property. All the dead Angiers.

The problem is that the audience is bludgeoned, that the filmmakers made it as idiotproof as possible, at the risk of insulting the audience:

  1. You get the multiple hats at the beginning of the film, then explained later. “Don’t forget your hat.” “Which one is my hat?” “They all are.”
  2. Ditto the cats.
  3. The scene in which Angier tests Tesla’s machine, gun nearby, and is faced with (and shoots) his double.
  4. The tarped water boxes secretly taken away every night to the rehearsal space/warehouse.
  5. We see a very dead Angier in the tank and on the slab, and then later a living Count/Angier.
  6. The final shot of the pickled Angier (not to mention the rows of water boxes that, unseen but known, hold dozens of other drowned Angiers).

El Perro Fumando and I both understood the twist as soon as the pile of hats appeared the second time. Shame that we had to be told, more and more explicitly, what the twist was, five more times.

Every night, there’s a new water box under the stage. Every night, the trick creates a duplicate that, because of the vaguaries of the machine, ends up spitting out the copy onto the balcony; the original Angiers falls through a trap door into the water box, which locks above him to drown. Angiers goes into the machine each night knowing that he’s committing suicide at the same time he makes the copy, so that there are not monstrous clones running around London.

The trick is that, one night, Borden witnesses the necessary suicide and causes a scene that leads to his discovery and arrest. Balcony Angier, knowing that the illusion is ruined once Borden is found with a freshly drowned Angier under the stage, does not appear as planned, and goes on to be the Count incognito.[/spoiler]

I guess what I’m saying is that you’re overthinking it, RogueRacer. It’s all right there. And then there again. And again. And again. If anything, the last shot only muddied the waters with possible confusion in the case of people like your RogueGF.

Other than my extreme hatred of how they handled the big twist (and how they glossed over the substantial twist with an absurd other), it was a great movie. Strong performances all around, great mood and setting. Excellent cinematography.

OMD, ok, we got all of that. I agree that they made it obvious before the reveals, but I still enjoyed the movie.

I did miss that there were rows of water boxes. I actually assumed that they were using the same box over and over and emptying it out. I guess I remember there being rows of something, but it didn’t click.

As far as your last spoiler paragraph, OMD, that was pretty much spelled out. Michael Caine’s character was still narating after that. Also, I read a review that talked about something subtle and easy to miss at the end. So far, none of this is subtle.

However, thinking back, a few things are kind of neat…

Borden (whichever one) was probably telling Angier the truth about not remembering which knot he tied. The other one tied it. Also, it explains how he got in his future wife’s apartment so quickly.

Now I understand you. But until I hear about some subtle revelation that I completely overlooked, I’m going to take it with a grain of salt and assume that the reviewer is giving himself too much credit regarding his own cleverness, and he’s taking our “blatantly, insultingly obvious” as “something subtle.”

I may have found the review: David Ansen for Newsweek.

So perhaps I have missed a third “twist.” Or perhaps, just as likely, I’m glomming together two of his twists into one.

To painfully rehash:

Twist 1: The cloned and killed Angiers, which so insulted me in my first post.
Twist 2: Borden is twins. Like the chinaman they visit, the two Bordens live their act all the time, and the entire movie can be seen as one big illusion to the audience. (Here’s where I think I’m taking his third twist and lumping it with the second).

Twist 3?

Maybe I’m just a little dense to find the third big reveal. Maybe I did, and it made so little impression, was so mundane, that I am not even thinking about it except as a step in one of the more obvious reveals.

One thing is for sure. I’ve been reminded again that IMDB’s threads for their movies are absolutely worthless. Blech.

Perhaps the third twist is the actually identity of Hugh Jackman’s character…

That he’s not a rich American but a British Lord.

A few things bothered me about it and kept me from making it a great movie to me…

[spoiler]How long have Borden and his brother been hiding out this way? Why were they doing it even before they had an act requiring doubles?

Why did Borden send Angier to Telsa? Since he was twins, he didn’t need a duplicating machine. Did Borden know Telsa was capable making one?

Why the large number of water tanks at the end, wouldn’t one be enough?[/spoiler]

While I enjoyed the acting, sets, and directing, like with The Illusionist I was a bit dissapointed with the ending.

Sorry about that, that’s what I get for posting during my first cup of coffee and while wife is talking to me. If any mods catch it could they please edit the spoiler tags?

thanks.

Saw it, may need a second viewing to fully get it, but liked it.

Everyone turned in great performances–David Bowie and Andy Serkis, in particular, really disappeared into their roles, and I love how neither Hugh Jackman nor Christian Bale played their characters entirely sympathetic. The acting was superb, and the sets and costumes were brilliant.

My own personal nitpick: wouldn’t

Borden 1 (or 2–whoever was up on stage with Angiers and his wife at the very beginning) have talked to his twin about which knot he used and hashed out something of a plan?

If he used the simple slipknot, then why not just tell the truth? And if he used the Langford double (which is implied by the look he shares with Angiers’s wife) then why not either give himself up–I’m pretty sure he didn’t mean to murder Angiers’s wife on purpose–or lie to cover it up? Looking away and muttering “I don’t know” is what tips Angiers’s obsession off and it could’ve been really, really easily avoided.

The Illusionist isn’t a bad movie, but it does pale in comparison to this one–I enjoyed it, but I wasn’t as impressed. I’m tempted to say that Edward Norton (and Paul Giamatti and Rufus Sewell, and Jessica Biel if I’m feeling generous) deserved a movie more like this.

Why would Tesla need outside funding? Why couldn’t he just duplicate gold coins in his machine?

Question: If the title of the thread says spoilers do we still have to use them in the thread? Just in case,

I think he sent him to Tesla because Tesla did make the electric flashing lightning machine that Borden used on stage, however it didn’t do anything else. While making the one for Angier, Tesla somehow created one that would actually work, without knowing he had done so.

Each of the water tanks held one of the dead Angiers. We were shown that money is no object for him so presumably it was easier to just buy 100 (why he only wanted 100 I still don’t know) water tanks than to have his assistants remove a body each night. They were blind so couldn’t see what was in the tanks but surely would have objected to a hundred dead bodies.

Tesla used Angier’s money to invent the duplicating machine. Before he met him, he didn’t have one to crank out gold coins.

Also, as to why Borden sent Angiers to Tesla in the first place:

Tesla was very far away, and notoriously reclusive. The diary Angiers stole from Borden that led him to Tesla was a fake all along. Sending him all the way to Colorado was a way to get Angiers out from under Borden’s feet, so he could build up his act without Angiers’ competition, spying, and sabotage. He never expected Angiers to come back with a machine that actually worked.

Incidentally, I really liked the parrallel they set up between Angiers obsessive hatred of Borden, and Edison’s obsessive hatred of Tesla.

Over all, I thought it was a great movie. Angiers big twist was telegraphed from quite a distance, but I’m not sure that was avoidable. Borden’s twist caught me entirely by surprise, though. At one point, I was convinced that Fallon was being played by Teller from Penn and Teller. They already had the Ricky Jay cameo, and they even comment at one point about how Fallon never seems to talk. It seemed like a natural conclusion!

Beowulf,

[spoiler]There are TONS of foreshadowing in this movie. I agree with some posters that I saw the twists coming a mile away, but liked it anyway.

Borden had been hiding a twin his whole life. They foreshadow this with the Chinaman. Remember the seemingly crippled old guy? They surmise he must just be pretending to be feeble to make his trick work. It turns out that a really great magician has to make his act his life- and Borden takes this to another level by having a twin nobody knew about.

Re: Tesla using his machine for cheap tricks- Tesla told Angiers that the world won’t grasp his innovations, and that it would be easier for them to accept it in the concept of a magic trick. [/spoiler]

I guess maybe the biggest piece of foreshadowing is the trick with the birds; one of those tricks where the “secret” is brutally simple. For each trick, a bird is slaughtered in a collapsing cage, and a double is presented. Angier did that with himself using the duplicating machine.
But as noted, the movie is full of parallels. If, for instance Angier really was a British lord all along, then he was faking an American accent even in intimate circumstances with his wife. So he’s living an act. And he and Borden both have doubles, although Angier’s is an imperfect, troublesome double, while Borden – well, Borden is doubled.So it’s an interesting, complex story, which I would have liked better without the fantasy element.

Was Borden really twins, or did Tesla’s demonstration create an extra Borden by mistake? I think I missed the part where they said Borden was/had a twin.

[Spoiler] I caught on that Borden’s… ‘buttler’ / security force was a player… I just couldn’t discern the game til the ‘reveal’ at the end.

However, I agree, I don’t get why Tesla even needed to be in the plot. Further why the entire wrinkle of Edison needed to be in there.

The reason why I wanted to see it, was the Nolan directed it. However, it resembled Memento a tad too much for me.

I LOVED Memento.

The Prestige… not so much. [/Spoiler]
On top of that, I want a refund:

[Spoiler] The movie billed itself as someone with ““Real”” magic, that illusionists dream of having.

Where exactly was the ““Real”” magic ? I mean, the entire premise that one or the other of the rivalry had a natural gift completely …dissapears in the middle of the entire misdirection otherwise known as the movie.[/Spoiler]

Didn’t Borden voice the entire “I deserved her more than you did” motivation for the murder?

No spoiler boxes needed for this post. I saw it this morning and enjoyed it immensely. Loved Bowie as Telsa. Took me a while to sort out Angier’s end of the trick, but with the help of some other forums, I think I understand it.