You used the word “repulsion”. Either you’re repulsed by them or you’re repulsed by yourself. Maybe you want to prove something to yourself, if not other people.
Whichever it is, I’m sorry if I offended you. But if you don’t want people to point out when you’re saying stupid shit, don’t hang around the forum labeled “Great Debates”.
Technology is advancing at an amazing rate - and I have no doubt that at some point in your life, this will not be a problem for you anymore. Good luck.
P.S. You still have not responded to my two earlier posts.
The average width of the aisle is 17 inches, and the average width of a coach seat is between 17 and 17.5 inches. to make a movable seat, they would have to either make the aisles 2 to 3 inches wider, or only allow really skinny handicapped people sit in 15 inch wide seats with no arm rests. Which sounds more feasible to you?
This is factually incorrect. Stools do not have back rests, and the linked photos clearly show a backrest. Perhaps you can clarify.
**(2) The chair is not self propelled. **
A semi-reasonable complaint. The problem is, as I see it, is that having a self propelled chair doesn’t gain you any real mobility improvement. I assume these things can’t be stored by your seat, so an attendant will need to bring you the chair anyhow. Thus, being self propelled doesn’t make you more independent. You still will need to wait on the attendant, and the attendant will have to wait for you to be finished to store the chair.
In addition, another problem is that a self propelled chair probably isn’t technically feasible. Even if you put a hand crank, the wheels are so small, it would be tough to get it moving. The bigger problem is navigation. How are you going to keep it straight going down the aisle with just inches of clearance. I think you are just going to be bumping the seats as you go down the aisle.
Furthermore, you are making this a worse experience for other handicapped people. Any hand crank or other mechanism is going to make it more difficult to get people into the chair. For what benefit? I doubt the vast majority of handicapped people would be able to hand crank their way down the aisle and use the bathroom unassisted.
As it stands, you are just saying “they should do something, damnit!” without considering any of the practical considerations.
3. You have to be strapped in
This is an obvious liability issue for the airlines. So long as you are going to be using their wheel chair on their airplane, they are going to force you to do so in the safest way possible. And realistically, this is isn’t that big of a deal. They’re nothing more than seat belts.
I think the other practical point is that once the chair was wheeled to the bathroom, you couldn’t just leave it there while you were inside as it might block ingress/egress to the other bathrooms, the galley, and generally just block the aisle.
So an airline attendant would need to either ensure it was locked down and would not roll, or would need to put it somewhere out of the way until you were through. So an attendant would be needed every step of the way, anyway.
I can understand the desire to be as independent as possible. At the same time, I know in many hospitals they require someone to wheelchair you to the street when you are discharged - even if you are able-bodied. The reasons I was given were along the lines of insurance requirements and liability.
This is inline for why the airlines insist on wheeling you on the jetway and in the aisles.
It’s not too much a cost to society, it’s too much a cost to the airline/aisle chair maker…* for now.* At some point, incurring a cost X to achieve a result Y can become economically viable; it may certainly be a desirable thing to get to that point but the rub is how do we make it so? Going back to the beginning, you seem to be saying, “I find the established solution unacceptable and deleterious to my dignity, someone should do something about it, I’m not an engineer, I don’t know what are the measures that would be required, but there must be some way to do it”? Duly noted if so. For all you and I know there’s a hundred engineers around the world who have had the same thought and are busy sketching out, discarding, reconsidering and amending possible alternatives but as of yet none of that has really panned out practically.
Understood. It’s about your feeling that it’s contrary to your dignity to be strapped in and pushed, and it is irrelevant if the majority of everyone else is satisfied with the current system. Well, for the strapping in part you may blame a cautionary stance by the industry about people not falling off and suing; for the pushing part you may blame the abovementioned cost-benefit considerations and majority conformity. Uphill battle, man.
How can you say it’s too much of a cost to the airlines? What is too much of a cost? The workable modifications haven’t even yet been decided on. For all you, or anyone here knows, it could be CHEAP.
OK let’s leave the emotion aside for a bit and talk practical.
The OP has to admit that they are not the average run of the mill wheelchair transported airline passenger.
For the record I spent 15 years in a job where I traveled 50% of the time, I have been on a shitload of airplanes. I have probably seen more wheelchair passengers than most people.
So start with the following assumptions:
[ol]
[li]Any solution has to be able to accommodate all wheelchair bound passengers not just a few. [/li][li]The solution has to be safe not just for the WC passenger, but the other passengers, and airline staff as well.[/li][li]The cost to the airlines cannot be prohibitive[/li][li]FAA has to approve it[/li][li]Has to be practical[/li][/ol]
So let’s talk about some of the ideas that have been proposed, and address when they fail one of the assumptions above
A hand cycle. Fails on #1 the 90 year old grandmother won’t be able crank it. Also if the chain comes up between the rider’s legs with the crank in front of them, how does the passenger with no functional legs get on and off it it? Making it fold and store will be left as an exercise for the reader.
Motorized scooter Fails on 2, 3, and 4. FAA would never approve a large battery operated device. Also where do you store the damn thing when not in use?
No seat belts. Fails on 1, 2, 4, and 5. While it is true in 99%+ of all landings seat belts aren’t really necessary, but let me tell you those last few will make you damn glad you have one on. Same with the aisle chair and the straps.
Remove a seat and build special place where a wheel chair could be locked in place Fails on 3, 4, and 5. What does the airline do on the vast majority of flights where there is no occupant for that space? Also if we create one spot right next to the washroom for this new wonder chair, what happens if a second handicapped person wants to take the same flight? :smack: (Yes I have seen more than one wheelchair passenger on the same flight)
We could ask the airlines to put monkey bars down the center of the aisle and the OP could just use them to carry himself to the washroom, but I won’t hold my breath that this will come to fruition.
My suggestion to the OP is everyone has a different cross to bear. I am short and can’t always get stuff in and out of the overhead bins on some planes. Tall people bang their heads on the monitors hanging from the ceilings on a 757. Fat people aren’t comfortable in coach seats.
You can’t walk to the washroom. Man up and deal with it. That is what all the rest of us do.
Actually, you got what you deserved without lifting a finger. You’re sense of entitlement notwithstanding, it’s not possible for an airline to build an autonomous chair that accommodates the safety requirements for all concerned and meets your personal wish list. This has been explained to you in detail.
As a paraplegic you are not capable of moving yourself safely through the plane under adverse conditions.
Equating my dilemma to that of a short man having difficulty reaching overhead bins is simply ludicrous and offensive. My issue is not one of comfort or convenience. Modifying the pre-existing aisle chairs so that, while they are still usable for all those who need them, someone who can use it independently can do so, doesn’t seem like some unrealistic dream. Not. At. All. And while others may have made such suggestions, I never gave the idea of having a motorized scooter on board, using a chair that had no seat belts available, or even realistically entertained the notion of removing entire rows of seats.
You’re not addressing anything that’s been said. You pick out one thing and then go into mental failure mode on everything else. You’re fantasy chair doesn’t meet other people’s needs nor is it safe for you to navigate by yourself.
What am I not addressing? What isn’t safe? What doesn’t meet the needs of others? You must be referring to ideas that OTHERS have bandied about; not myself. Just look at my previous post. I said modifying the pre-existing aisle chairs so that, while they are still perfectly safe and usable for other disabled passengers, those passengers who CAN use it independently are able to do so, doesn’t sound like an unreasonable or unrealistic, outlandish idea.
And what makes you the expert on aisle chair design? The existing aisle chairs meet the safety requirements. I am suggesting modifying the chair so that it can be propelled by the user. Just because someone here has the opinion that it is not safe doesn’t make it so. I mean, such an aisle chair hasn’t even been made yet. So to speculate (and that is all it is) on it’s safety is just that; pure speculation.
You are totally wrong in your last assertion. I am probably more capable than many of the able-bodied passengers. If I have the means (which would be the modified aisle chair) I would be more than capable of moving myself safely through the plane. Now under “adverse conditions” no one would be allowed out of their seats, so that is a phony example.
Says who? (while I obviously can’t “walk” to my seat “in a timely manner”, I can still GET to my seat "in a timely manner). Your stereotypical thinking regarding all things disabled is sad.
I’ve built cars, planes and rehabbed houses. I have a far better idea of what’s involved in constructing anything having to do with aircraft than you do. Aside from that, everyone else grasps that it’s not possible to build a chair to meet everybody’s satisfaction AND the safety of all the passengers concerned.
Anyone with common sense. By default you can’t negotiate the airplane without help. You have to be wheeled into it per your own admission. In turbulence you would be plastered all over the plane and other passengers if left to your own devices.