crap - missed the edit window. In my last message, “…so getting pushed there in an aisle chair **is **announcing…” should say “…so getting pushed there in an aisle chair isn’t announcing…”
Perhaps the devices mentioned are a possibility, I’d have to investigate further. I didnt ignore the ideas though, if you go back you can see my questions. I DID ignore the whole “buy a plane” thing. PLEASE. You might as well buy it for me.:rolleyes:
Mr. Pot, there’s someone I’d like you to meet.
I did read that, and I pointed out that airlines do not manufacture aisle chairs. You’re barking up the wrong tree. If you want modified aisle chairs, then you have to talk to the companies that make them. The airlines cannot buy a product that is not produced.
I’m barking up the wrong tree how? By having this discussion here? I know you said that and thank you. No need for the whole “pot and kettle” insinuation.
Thanks!
‘Pot and kettle’ is because you accused someone of not reading the thread, when you yourself seem not to have read it.
You’re barking up the wrong tree because – for the third time – airlines buy aisle chairs from companies that make aisle chairs. They do not make them themselves. If you’re angry that there are no self/occupant-controlled aisle chairs, the airlines have nothing to do with it. Your complaint is with the companies that make aisle chairs; not the airlines. You’re complaining that car dealerships will not sell you a flying saucer. That’s because the carmakers that sell the cars to the dealerships don’t make flying saucers. It’s not the dealership’s fault.
Incidentally, airlines do not build their own airplanes either.
Anyone surprised?
Um, ok. You seem to be making a semantic point here. The airlines buy the aisle chairs from manufacturers who design them according to the airlines specifications. So WHO has the final say??? The airlines wouldn’t accept an aisle chair premade that didn’t work in the way they were comfortable with so in the END the airlines are the ones who are responsible.
Ok, THAT was funny 
This is an unbelievable thread.
jamiemcgarry: It should be clear to you by now that your personal sense of dignity is not shared by other handicapped people - in fact, they might find it more personally dignified to be pushed to the lavatory than to have to manhandle themselves there with some sort of crank assembly. And what of the disabled people who aren’t strong enough to do that?
And you grossly underestimate the engineering that would be required by handwaving it away as something that just needs to be ‘figured out’. First of all, the flight attendant isn’t just there to push you - he or she is there to protect you and the other passengers. If there is clear-air turbulence and your chair and you go banging off the ceiling, the flight attendant will be there to help minimize the damage. The flight attendant is also there to ensure that you move down the aisle at a reasonable speed, because any time the aisle is blocked in an airplane it’s a safety hazard and an inconvenience for all the other passengers.
For your self-powered chair to work, it would have to be locked into tracks in the floor, because a heavy steel contraption can’t be allowed to wander up and down the aisles unattended in case there is turbulence. If would have to have some sort of ratchet mechanism to prevent it from going backwards if the plane had to make an emergency dive, or rolling you forward into an obstacle if the plane had to make an emergency climb.
The mechanism for powering it down the aisle would be extremely difficult to make in such a way that it would work for people with various upper-body strength and mobility issues. Most people in wheelchairs are elderly and do not have the general strength to do that. Rolling wheelchair wheels with your hands works because the wheel acts as a big damned gear, reducing the amount of force that needs to be applied. Turn that wheel into a small crank, and you lose the mechanical advantage. So you’d have to have a gear reduction on it, which would add weight to the chair and which would cause it to either move very slowly, or you would be required to turn the crank at very high speed - which wouldn’t be all that dignified.
Then the device would have to be engineered in such a way that it didn’t impede you from getting in and out of the chair, and that a mechanical failure wouldn’t hurt you or result in the chair being stuck in an aisle with no way to remove it.
Assuming these problems could be addressed, we’re talking about major modifications to the interior of the airplane, the design of an entirely new mobility device, FAA certification of same, and then you’d STILL have to bring the other style of chair for those people who don’t have the upper-body strength to crank their way down the aisle. You’d reduce flight safety and impede the movement of other passengers and flight crew. The weight of the additional chair and modifications would cost the airline hundreds of thousands of dollars in fuel over the life of the plane.
And then what about the next disabled person who has a different sense of dignity and wants some other accommodation? Should they get it to? Or are you special?
All that said, I wonder why the airlines don’t simply plan to put disabled people in seats directly outside the lavatories and avoid the whole issue? Of course, then there might be complaints that it’s not fair to have to sit right beside the smelly rooms just because you’re disabled, or that it’s not fair that you have to be first on and last off the airplane.
I do know one thing - it’s up to you whether you choose to go through life grateful to others for the accommodation they do show you, rather than carrying a giant chip on your shoulder and blaming everyone around you for the difficulties of your disability.
For example, next time you’re waiting for a handicapped stall, you might stop to think about the fact that the owner of the establishment had to pay money out of his own pocket for that stall, and that everyone else who waits in line has to wait a little longer because there’s one handicapped stall in a space that could occupy two regular ones - and they have to wait longer even when there are no handicapped people around at all - which is most of the time.
Likewise, the next time you drive in to a shopping center and see those rows of mostly empty parking stalls reserved for handicapped people, you might reflect on the fact that everyone else always has to walk a little farther into the store and back, all the time, to make life easier for the handicapped. We all do our part to make reasonable effort to make the lives of the handicapped a little better. Maybe you should have a little gratitude about that and use it to temper your frustration when things aren’t going so well. Giving some thought to how much we all spend to accommodate the handicapped already might make life just a bit more pleasant for you and those you come into contact with.
‘Final say’? We haven’t had the initial ‘say’ yet. The airlines are not going to buy a piece of equipment that doesn’t exist. If such a chair did exist, it would be certified for airline use. IF the chair existed and the airlines as a whole didn’t adopt them, then you might have a case. Then you could choose to fly with airlines that have them.
But until these chairs exist and are available to airlines, you’re barking up the wrong tree.
I understand these things very well. There is only ONE problem. “everyone else who waits in line has to wait a little longer because there’s one handicapped stall in a space that could occupy two regular ones - and they have to wait longer even when there are no handicapped people around at all - which is most of the time.”-This is NEVER the case. I have NEVER experienced able bodied ppl waiting in line outside the non-accessible stalls in order to keep the accessible stall available for someone who needs it. It’d be nice but NEVER ONCE has that been my reality. It’s almost human nature to select the most convenient option and unless and until more is done to spread AWARENESS of this issue, the problem will continue. The problem is similar, although not to the same EPIDEMIC levels as bathroom stalls, with parking spots.
Well, my sympathy just evaporated to zero. You’re essentially complaining that the airline is not accomodating your self-inflicted discomfort. Why not fly to the event’s city a few days early and power-chug the Gatorade after you land?
This is too silly to even address seriously.
That is not what Sam Stone said. And tangentially, I note that you are now complaining about people who don’t actually wait in line for the normal stalls to leave the handicapped stall unoccupied for the 0.01% chance that someone in a wheelchair enters the bathroom.
Sam Stone’s point is that the mere existence of the handicapped stall takes up extra floor space and therefore costs money, and inconveniences everyone by reducing the number of stalls available in a bathroom of a given size. Yet instead of being grateful that this accommodation has been provided for your use at everyone else’s expense, you are offended that it is not held in reservation for your use alone.
All “handicapped ppl” are not one and the same. The same disparity, or diversity, exists within the disabled community that exists within the world at large. Those safeguards put in place to serve the needs of the, say, 90yr old woman who is crippled with rheumatoid arthritis and myriad other ailments, aren’t something that those of us much higher up on the “functionality ladder” should necessarily be subjected to. Many ppl view “wheelchair users” as one single entity.
Of course you completely missed the point. I’m not talking about whether they use the handicapped stall. I’m saying that a bathroom that has one regular stall and one handicapped stall could instead have had three regular stalls. So any time there is a lineup for that bathroom, people in line are waiting longer than they would have to had no handicapped facilities been made available at all. That occurs even if a handicapped person never uses that bathroom.
In addition, if a building rents for $20 sq ft, and a handicapped stall uses up an extra six square feet of floor space, then the person renting that building is paying $120 to provide handicapped access for you. You might think about some of the things people already doing for you, rather than bitch about the things you want.
In the case of the airline, the cost of that accommodation would run into the millions of dollars. Nothing is cheap in aviation. Your special chair would impose a cost on everyone else who’s flying. You should be grateful for the access you do have, and if that conflicts with your desire to fly to bodybuilding tournaments after sucking down a whole bunch of fluids, well, tough luck. Either lower your personal sense of dignity to match reality, or stay home. There’s lots of things I’d like to do that I can’t do for practical reasons, and I don’t demand that others provide them for me.
On edit: What Absolute said.
Except in this case, the accommodation is perfectly reasonable and suitable for your condition and a range of others as well.
How many times do I need to repeat myself???
I NEVER demanded or wanted ANYTHING “held in reservation for my use alone”. IT’s a simple system of fairness. If all other stalls are occupied, by all means, USE THE HANDICAP STALL. THAT would be a use of NECESSITY. Because you had NO OTHER OPTION. Just like someone in a wheelchair, or other access-compromising disability has no other option. BUT, if non-accessible toilets ARE available, that should be your (as an able-bodied individual) FIRST choice. I don’t expect ppl to line up outside non-accessible stalls when the handicap stall is available. That is ridiculous. But I DO expect ppl to reserve use of those stalls for times when other stall aren’t available. I cannot fathom how ANYONE can, in all fairness and honesty, argue with this premise.