The psychological damage from growing up as a Jehovah's Witness

[thelurkinghorror]

@lavenderviolet

A love of animals is actually is one of the “hooks” they use on people. According to some of the ex-JWs I’ve run into, they actually encourage people to think that in the JW paradise, you’ll be able to do things like ride a lion. In Jehovah’s paradise there will be no violence, even from meat-eating animals, of course.

According to a tract they dropped off once, the Whore of Babylon (i.e. the Catholic Church) rides a tiger. They never mentioned that in CCD. I don’t know if that means a metaphorical tiger, or if all Catholics get tigers, or if they all Voltron into one big whore with a giant tiger, but either way 7 year old He-Man loving me would’ve loved his own BattleCat.

[kaylasdad99]

@BMalion

Also, according to my neighbor, Star Wars (the original movie) is based on Revelation chaptered 12.

Of course, he’s never actually seen the film.

Obviously.

In Rev. 12, the seven-headed, ten-horned Beast totally shoots first.

[kaylasdad99]

@lavenderviolet

The way JWs view women is extremely backwards and at times dangerous (for example, they do not feel that domestic violence is a valid reason to get a divorce, which is why I am worried about my young JW relative who is rushing into a quickie marriage with another JW that she doesn’t really know very well).

Just make sure she knows that domestic violence is a valid reason for an ass-kicking from the in-laws.

[TokyoBayer]

@lavenderviolet

I know that these relatives are not stupid people, but the organization has forced them into such simple-minded, shallow beliefs. It has crushed their intellectual curiosity about the world.
It’s sad to me that one of my young female relatives actually thinks evolution isn’t real, there isn’t any point in aspiring to a good career because Jehovah will destroy the world soon anyway, that women are not as smart as men, and women should be “submissive” to their “headship” (husband). Not to mention all the birthday/holiday celebrations that they can’t be part of. It’s sad that their lives are so limited by something that, if you’re not under the organization’s influence, you can see is so clearly ridiculous.

Yes, I’ve been there and did that. Except for the no birthdays or Christmas and the blood transfussions.

There are on-going debates between us ex-Mormons and ex-Witnesses on which is wackier.

I have to give it to the Witnesses, they seem to have a slight edge, but mostly because Mormonism has attempted to mainstream. If you were to go by the revelations which were supressed, then Mormonism would be quite similar.

I continued east by the way of Omaha and Council Bluffs, which were full of disease. There were women everywhere. The state of Illinois and Missouri were in a tumult, men killing one another, women joining the fighting, family against family in the most horrid manner.

I imagined next that I was in Washington and I found desolation there. The White House was empty and the Halls of Congress the same, and everything in ruins. The people seemed to have left the city and left it to take care of itself.

I was in Baltimore. In the square where the Monument of 1812 stands in front of the Charles Hotel. I saw dead piled up so as to fill the street square. I saw mothers cutting the throats of their own children for their blood. I saw them suck it from their throats to quench their own thirst and then lie down and die. The water of Chesapeake Bay was stagnant, and the stench arising from it on account of their throwing their bodies into it so terrible, that the very smell carried death with it. I saw no man except they were dead or dying in the streets and very few women. Those I saw were crazy and in an ugly condition. Everywhere I went I beheld the same sights all over the city; it was terrible beyond description to look upon.

I thought this must be the end; but no, I was seemingly in an instant in the city of Philadelphia. There everything was still. No living soul was there to greet me. It seemed the whole city was without any inhabitants. In the south of Chestnut Street and in fact everywhere I went, the putrefaction of the dead caused such a stench that it was impossible for any living thing to breathe, nor did I see any living thing in the city.

Next I found myself in Broadway, in the city of New York, and there it seemed the people had done the best they could to overcome the disease, but in wandering down Broadway I saw the bodies of beautiful women lying, some dead and others in a dying condition, on the sidewalks. I saw men come out of cellars and ravish the persons of some that were yet alive and then kill them and rob their bodies of all the valuables they had upon them. Then before they could get back to the cellar they would roll over a time or two and die in agony. In some of the back streets I saw them kill some of their own offspring and eat their raw flesh, and in a few minutes die themselves. Everywhere I went I saw the same scene of horror and destruction and death and rapine.

When I was growing up in the 60s and 70s, we were preparing for the End Times and the imminant 2nd Coming. We had our two-year supply of food.

However, Mormonism still is pretty whacky. Wives need to submit to their husbands and can only get to heaven through their husband. Until he’s unworthy and then like chattel, they are taken from him and given to someone else. They don’t offically publish that stuff, but the did before and it’s never be offically repudiated.

@IvoryTowerDenizen

I have problems with the way they shun family members who do not adhere in lockstep to all the beliefs, making people choose between makxing their own life and staying touch with family. It’s heartless.

This is quite common in Mormonism as well, although not as an offical policy like the Witnesses have. I know of many, many divorces which have occurred and even been encouraged by church leaders when a member decides they can no longer believe.

Salt Lake has a serious problem with homeless LGBT youth which were kicked out of their Mormon households.

@lavenderviolet

I honestly feel that most of the JW followers are being victimized by the leaders. The leaders KNOW what they are doing. I don’t think most of the followers really understand what is going on.
It really is shocking that even though the JWs make their followers go to multiple meetings a week and make their followers do so much door to door preaching, most of the followers really DON’T know much about the organization’s history and doctrine changes.

This is another similarity. Ex-Mormons talk about how busy they were as Mormons and how much the church discourages people from studying the history.

My experience has been that if I ask a JW follower a few questions from http://www.jwfacts.com that they usually will end the conversation very quickly because they really don’t have answers to my questions. In some cases they don’t even know enough about JW beliefs to understand why things like the fact that the JW organization lies about the date of the fall of Jerusalem matter. I think it is absolutely horrible that so many people are being hurt by beliefs that collapse so easily under a little bit of scrutiny.

The JWs in my family joined before the internet. I really feel that if the JWs in my family could have looked at JWFacts before they became deeply invested in the organization, they would have never joined. I don’t think most JWs really know what they are getting into when they join. Like Shagnasty, they think “These are very nice people. I want to hang out with them”. They don’t know they are joining an organization with a long history of concealing childhood sex abuse, for example.

This is happening over in Mormondom as well. The internet is killing new growth, the number of active members in the UK, for example, is actually falling despite having over 1,000 full time missionaries there.

Listening to stories of former JWs and ex-Mormons, there are a lot of similarities. I get the sense that although more JWs are more extreme, there is an overlap.

Like JWs, most Mormons have so little undersanding of their history and past doctrines (which have only been quietly hushed up without offical repudiation) they will denounce it as “anti-Mormon” lies.

@thelurkinghorror

According to a tract they dropped off once, the Whore of Babylon (i.e. the Catholic Church) rides a tiger. They never mentioned that in CCD. I don’t know if that means a metaphorical tiger, or if all Catholics get tigers, or if they all Voltron into one big whore with a giant tiger, but either way 7 year old He-Man loving me would’ve loved his own BattleCat.

Damn, we didn’t get that. We were taught about the Catholic Church being the Whore of Babylon, but nothing about tigers.

@lavenderviolet

Of course, here we are many decades after that quote and “The End” still hasn’t happened. “The Generation That Will Not Pass Away” originally referred to their teaching that Jehovah would destroy the world before the generation of people alive in 1914 died (but of course now they have had to revise that teaching now that almost everyone from 1914 is now dead). However, they still are very much trying to lead people to believe that the world’s destruction is imminent and that horrible things are in store for anyone who is not JW then.
It’s so obviously crazy if you are not part of the cult, but I feel bad for those who are stuck in the middle of their brainwashing and really do live with the thought that there is imminent destruction coming. Especially the poor kids born into it, who really know nothing else to give them a reality check.

We had a number of “Generation That Will Not Pass Away” as well. IIRC the first was 1891.

I grew up as one of the Saturday’s Warriors, a youth in the 1970s that was going to be the leaders when the End Times came. They still seem to be teaching that to the kids these days.

@Dr.Drake

This is a false equivalence. Ex-Mormons have a lot of complaints about the restrictive values, but their experiences are not parallel to JWs. . . .

JWs are on the extreme end of this continuum, and their everyday practices are abusive and damaging. Nobody seems to want to hear this: every thread like this, someone always pops up to say, “Oh come on—it’s not that bad. Not that I have any inside knowledge, but I’ve met a few and they seem okay; if it were as awful as you say, I’d have known before now.”

I only have the experiences of my mother and a couple of cousins, and of course the collateral second-hand damage I experienced, plus the members of the family who are currently JWs, and of course all the elderly relatives who died because they weren’t allowed cancer treatment in hospitals. So maybe I’m wrong, but I have a decent sample size over a forty-year period, and I’ve known other people who grew up Mormon (many left, some did not), though I have to admit no Moonies or Young Communists. The groups are not at all alike.

I have quite the sample-size of ex-Mormons, and I suggest you are dismissing the experience Mormons have who leave the church.

It is a continuum, and the experience of the average JW is no doubt worse than experience of the average Mormon, but still, there are many former Mormons who suffer when losing their faith.

It seems to be that the greater that people bought into the story, the harder it was.

Like any other highly patriarchal society, both of these churches foster abuse. Mormonism is taking steps to make changes, but ask any of us who grew up abused by their fathers in the 60s and 70s, it was a horrible, horrible religion.

[MichaelEmouse]

So, Mormonism started in the 1820s and JW in the 1870s, right?

Any idea as to why they both started in the US in the 19th century? One in NY state and the other in Pittsburgh.
What’s the average number of person recruited by a Mormon missionary per year of mission?

How successful is JW recruitment?

How does the experience of converts change over time? I presume that neither religion emphasizes the kookier elements early on.

Any idea of the gender ratio in JW? I have this anecdote-based impression that there are more women than men. If so, why is that?

[Claverhouse]

@MichaelEmouse

So, Mormonism started in the 1820s and JW in the 1870s, right?

Any idea as to why they both started in the US in the 19th century? One in NY state and the other in Pittsburgh.

The 19th century, especially early, was a very weltschmerzian time — with the difference between things as they are and things as they might be far more to the fore than in previous centuries soothed by the eternal verities of religion and custom. The scientific gains of the last two centuries, leading to new invention all the time; the obsession with Freedom !, if not freedoms;the Enlightenment doctrines from German and French professors; the nonconformist heritage of self decision; and plenty of other factors all led to an exhilarating explosion in religion: which fatally combined with the delusion, not exclusively American but an essential component in the Dream, of Self-Perfectionism.

There never was a better time for invention in religion, outside Late Antiquity. And in Europe expressed itself in radical socialist theorizing and establishment of formal anarchist/communist movements, which also were secular religions with Self-Perfectionism as central.

[gytalf2000]

@Senegoid

Some years ago, some JWs came a-knocking at my door. They had a red hard-cover book they were selling, which purported to be a line-by-line explication of Revelation. They didn’t tell me they were JW, but it was immediately obvious after just a glance at the book. They were only asking $3 for it.

I bought it immediately.

It was fabulous (literally!) reading! If you like ancient Greek or Norse or Roman mythology, with all the drama of all the gods and their battles and jealousies and hurling thunderbolts around and all that, then you would certainly enjoy this book too.

Every page took just one or two verses of Revelation and expounded on that with a full paragraph (or several) of elaborate explanations, greatly expanding upon the actual text, with the rest of the page being filled with those marvelously elaborate fanciful drawings that they do. It was a wonderful read, filled with action, blood and gore, that evil seven-headed ten-horned monster (they drew it looking like a multi-headed leopard sort-of), the Whore of Babylon, the heroic horsemen, the apocalyptic battle with the Anti-Christ and the serpent getting chained up in Hell – the whole works. The book thus went through the ENTIRE Book of Revelation, line-by-line, from beginning to end.

Of course, by buying the book, I also doomed myself to getting repeat visits from them every month or so thereafter. After about the third visit, I politely told them I wasn’t interested, and they politely never bothered me again.

Darn it! Now I want that book!

But I don’t want to put up with visits from the JWs…

[simster]

@gytalf2000

Darn it! Now I want that book!

But I don’t want to put up with visits from the JWs…

revelation-1988.pdf

warning - PDF.

[gytalf2000]

@simster

http://jwsurvey.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/revelation-1988.pdf

warning - PDF.

Thanks!

[Shoeless]

Reading this thread reminds me of the comment Troy made in"Community" about being a Jehovah’s Witness:

“We’re not allowed to drink. But it helps.”

[August_West]

@MichaelEmouse

So, Mormonism started in the 1820s and JW in the 1870s, right?

Any idea as to why they both started in the US in the 19th century? One in NY state and the other in Pittsburgh.

See the Second Great Awakening

[Senegoid]

@simster

http://jwsurvey.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/revelation-1988.pdf

warning - PDF.

That doesn’t look like the same book. The one I had, with a red cover, had much less text than that and LOTS of pictures – on every page.

[simster]

@Senegoid

That doesn’t look like the same book. The one I had, with a red cover, had much less text than that and LOTS of pictures – on every page.

Right - the PDF doesn’t appear to be ‘good quality’ in that respect - it was the only copy I could find quickly on the web.

It’s also the 1988 version -they made ‘adjustments’ for the 2006 version (also pdf)

[robert_columbia]

@BMalion

Also, according to my neighbor, Star Wars (the original movie) is based on Revelation chaptered 12.

Of course, he’s never actually seen the film.

@kaylasdad99

Obviously.

In Rev. 12, the seven-headed, ten-horned Beast totally shoots first.

And Rev. 13? Don’t take the Mark of the Beast 666. It’s a trap!

[Cmr83]

Ex-jehovah’s witness here. The amount of brainwashing and psychological abuse they inflict, is astronomical. The secrets and lies unknown to followers, and a lot of times, the general public, is very scary and sickening. If you’d like honest facts and experience, let me know.