AMA - Ask A Former Jehovah's Witness About Life Before Or After

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

At the behest of another member here I’m putting up an “ask me anything” thread here. Just last year, at the age of 38 years old, I left the religion (I would now call it a cult) of Jehovah’s Witnesses voluntarily. Many do leave, but few leave of their own volition by formal disassociation which results in shunning. My wife left with me, or should I say we left together, working through that process on different timelines but waiting for one another.

My parents became JWs when I was somewhere around 8 years old. I had a “normal” life up to that point and then things changed. I was quite a devout JW and served as a regular pioneer and ministerial servant, terms that JWs would be familiar with. I was on stage in front of 13,000 plus at a district convention once, and in front of smaller crowds at circuit assemblies where maybe 3-5,000 were gathered on more than one occasion. I also attended to various duties at the local congregations that I attended. I was in a total of four over my three decades in.

Both of our families now shun us. We have embarked on an entirely new life. I lost my dad in April of this year and he spent the last year of his life (I was shunned by family before I was “officially” shunned after formal disassociation) shunning me.

Heck, I’d like to write my entire life story here in this post, but that would defeat the purpose of you asking questions. So, I guess this is where I tell you to ask me anything about my life as a JW, about JWs in general, about my life since, about how I left or why, or whatever you want.

Obviously I’m not online 24/7, but I’ll do my part to answer in a detailed manner any serious questions that are asked as I have time. Some of my first posts on this website were staunchly defending the religion as I was still in. Recently I’ve made some posts that were far less favorable to them. So this certainly seems an appropriate place for this AMA as the before and after has actually taken place some on this very forum.

Mike

2

What makes you call it a cult?

(not disagreeing with you, just curious about your take on it)

3

Well, for starters let’s go to the definitions, of which one is:

a relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister.

…and another is…

a misplaced or excessive admiration for a particular person or thing.

JWs are definitely thought of as strange by many and are small relative to the size of some more mainstream religions, though they are over 8 million worldwide at this point.

JWs view the ruling body of the organization, the governing body or “faithful and discreet slave” or self termed “guardians of doctrine” (G.O.D.), as being directed by Jehovah God. Therefore they will follow without question, what they are told to do, as though it comes from God himself. I don’t feel like looking it up right now (unless you demand a citation), but there was a quote from a magazine from the past several years that was parroted in many talks and the gist of it was this…

you may be asked by us at some point in the future to do something that seems strange from a human perspective, but will you obey? And then it goes on to relate how this is a God directed organization, blah blah blah.

Whenever an organization requires brain dead devotion, to me that is a great signal that you’re in a cult. When challenges are not allowed and you could be cast out and shunned if anyone found out that you even had doubts about the organization, you’re in a cult. When you can’t even speak to your own spouse without fear that they will tell the elders about you, you’re in a cult.

Steve Hassan, a cult expert, came up with the BITE model. If they can control your behavior, access to information, thoughts, and emotions, you’ve got the recipe for a cult. Jehovah’s Witnesses are masters as indoctrinating people through copious amounts of literature and meetings to attend so that followers look only to them for how to think, feel, and act.

Honestly there are so many things that make it a cult, so many reinforcing things I could point to for the way they control all of those things, but I’ll stop now.

Okay, I can’t stop just yet We were told how to answer this from the platform many times as JWs. We aren’t a cult. Cults follow one man. We don’t follow any one man. When your religion is telling you why they aren’t a cult and what to say when people say you’re in a cult, you’re in a cult.

4

Thanks for the answer! I especially like the last bit: “When your religion is telling you why they aren’t a cult and what to say when people say you’re in a cult, you’re in a cult.”

So a couple more:

  • What prompted you to start questioning your faith? How did you deal with the realization that a belief system you were so confident of was suddenly perhaps not as strong of a belief in you as it had been?

  • What would you pick as the one weirdest or most disturbing thing about JW?

5

Do you still believe any of the tenets?
Do you find you sleep better or have a greater sense of satisfaction in life?
Do you find yourself enjoying the moment you’re in rather than pining for potential happiness in an afterlife?

FTR, I’m happy for you. I let religious ideas control so much of my life and keep me from happiness and authenticity; I don’t do that in any way anymore.

6

The first question will take more time to answer than I have before bed, as you can imagine that was a huge deal for me/us. I’ll answer this second quick hitter and catch the other one tomorrow after work.

Man, it’s hard to pick one, but I’ll throw out one mind blowing issue that has even been brought out in the country of Australia in high courts very publicly and with prominent JWs on the stand:

JWs practice a “two witness rule” taken from the scriptures (out of the mouth of two witnesses a charge is confirmed, or something like that, again a cite can be requested). What this mean is the following:

So let’s say a little girl says that someone in the congregation molested her. She tells her parents. Her parents tell the elders in the congregation (because they’re always the first call in such a situation when it SHOULD be the police). The elders then call a meeting and will basically discuss the matter between the child and the accused. Unless the accused confesses the elders can’t take any action to disfellowship (kick him out of the congregation). There MUST be two witnesses. Now, you tell me how many people molest little kids with witnesses present. If, in the future, another kid complains of being molested by the same person, that can count as a second witness.

There are adults that claimed that a brother raped them that weren’t believed. It takes two witnesses or a confession.

Look, I can see why they can’t make a ruling in the congregation because they can’t know, but that’s the point. This should NEVER be adjudicated in a court of window washers and plumbers acting as elders. They are not qualified one bit. It should be handled by professional investigators that CAN actually produce evidence, not three old men in a room.

I should also say that going to the police is not encouraged. It is not impeded, as JWs on the stand will say “we don’t stop anyone from going to the police” (see the aforementioned Australian Royal Commission inquiry into Jehovah’s Witnesses), but they do not encourage it. In fact, some will discourage it because they “don’t want to bring reproach upon Jehovah’s name”. In other words, it will look bad on the organization and we can’t have that.

So, accusations of horrific abuse are often left without real investigation. In doing so, JWs do nothing to protect others in their own congregations, nor to protect the community at large. But, we disfellowshipped this person, they will chirp. Yeah, that might protect the congregation, but by avoiding the police involvement you left the community outside those doors vulnerable. They only think of themselves.

Oh, and if you’re kicked out (disfellowshipped) for molesting kids, you can always come back. Regardless of the reason, to come back once disfellowshipped you must return to meetings and be shunned while doing whatever the elders ask of you for a year or more, but then you can be welcomed back. So let’s say that Brother Smith molests little girl Susie, and of course Samantha as well because we need two victims. He is disfellowshipped. Over time he comes back, and now he’s welcomed back into the fold, the very fold that those two kids that he molested are in. He will be right there with them at every meeting. Can you imagine how those kids would feel?

Ugh, so there’s a disturbing thing for you. I could also talk about how they won’t take blood transfusions and people die, like moms that die in childbirth leaving behind a husband and newborn and maybe other kids and family because they take a scripture or two in the Bible and twist it. I could talk about a couple adopting a child, only to shun them later in life when they don’t want to be JWs anymore. I could talk about the discouraging of college and how they limit their followers in life. I could go on and on, but there you go.

7

Ah, a few more quick hitters before bed:

  1. As far as living a moral and upstanding life, yeah, that’s me. I don’t frown upon sex between consenting adults without marriage anymore, which they condemn, but for the most part basics like not stealing or murdering are good things to live by. As far as religious things, I no longer believe in God or the Bible. I believe in possibility. There ay be a God that cares, or one that doesn’t, or one that is malevolent, or none at all, or… or… or…

  2. Yes, I sleep better now and have much greater satisfaction in life. My life is now MINE, not anyone else’s. JWs are very “woe is me” and they love to point out how horrible life is because they believe that a horrible world proves that the end of it is near in a fiery Armageddon. So they need things to suck in order to be living in “the time of the end”. Their outlook is very negative. I live in gratitude now without positivity.

  3. Yep, again I live in gratitude now. I’m so much happier. So much of life is perception. You can see it as bad or good. I choose good now and funny enough better things have happened to me. Many of the things I looked forward to in the paradise earth that they promised us are things that I get to enjoy now. I have happiness, I have comfort, I have people that care about me, I have opportunities, etc.

Looks like you and I were in the same boat for a while. Now we’re in a different, and much better boat.

8

Do JWs specifically recruit among people with mental illness? I had never met a JW before in my life until I went into the mental health fiend, but since I have met several as patients.

9

Squee!

I’m so glad to see you doing this. Thank you!

My questions…

  • What other firsts have you experienced since you left? We’ve heard about your wife’s birthday party and now Halloween, tell us more!

  • When someone leaves, are there ever any people still JWs who only pretend to shun them? I realize there may be no way to truly know, but I just can’t imagine that occasionally Mom’s favorite granddaughter (or whatever) doesn’t get a surreptitious phone call when she’s at the store.

  • Are you still bumping up against things that you know you only believe a certain way because you were raised JW, yet fight in your heart because you know you now don’t? Argh. That sounds really convoluted, but let me give an example from my own life… I used to be pretty homophobic due to the religion I was raised in. Now, I have a faith that much more fits me and I’m now very pro GLBT. However, in the beginning I really had to tamp those “It’s wrong and unnatural!” feelings down to come around to how I actually thought. So, like that.

  • If I may ask, how’s it going dealing with the loss of what I’m sure was some extremely important folks in your life? Having your siblings or best friend shun you must be one of the worst things in the world and I’m so sorry you and your wife have had to go through that. :frowning:

But I’ve got to say; y’all are so brave. It takes really strong and resilient individuals to breakout of brainwashing like that. This internet stranger is so proud of you both and I hope there’s only great stuff in your future.

Thanks again for doing this. I’m sure I’ll have more questions, but I really appreciate you taking this on and all your in-depth answers so far. You’re the bomb.

10

My home town has a small JW community; two of the guys I used to hang out with as teens were brothers whose parents had converted when these boys were around 9yo. They’d leave the house in suits and ties, ostensibly each other’s chaperone, go to a classmate’s house, change and “chaperone” each other in borrowed jeans and tees.

What were your own first steps in starting to move away from the group socially? The first little or not so little rules that you broke?

11

What religious beliefs are you left with, if any?

12

How come JW’s claim there’s only one god, when they think both Jehovah and Jesus are gods? That makes absolutely no sense.

13

They don’t claim that Jehovah and Jesus are godS, they claim both are God.

14

No they don’t. They claim Jesus is the son of God, but not God. In their New World translation of the Bible, they state John 1.1 to read “the word was a god.” So Jesus and Jehovah are different gods, but there’s only one god. Go figure.

15

Question: have you considered the possibility that as a guy who left the group you’re now overreacting in the opposite direction, and seeing things as worse than they actually are/were?

ISTM that there’s a huge difference between “control your behavior, access to information …” and just “convince you to accept their authority and spin on facts …”. A cult would be where you physically can’t get access to information contrary to the cult.

Much or all of what you say makes JW a cult would apply to any group whose members fervently believe in the cause.

16

Got a quick break at work and chose to answer this first as it gets to the tone of this AMA.

Yes, it is possible that my perspective is skewed just like anyone else. I will say, however, that I’m not going from door to door here or preaching anything from the mountaintop like I was as a JW. I was asked by someone here to do this. It wasn’t even my idea.

I also haven’t just become identified as the ex-JW, I’m working hard to be me and stand for what I believe in even if it doesn’t fit in a tidy box. I’m not overly emotional, my journey out was a long one and didn’t leave me reeling like most. I’m testing things for myself now instead of following any one prescribed course. And if you knew me in person, you’ll know that I’m often on the outside because people are becoming more polarized and I can usually speak to the good and bad of most things.

My goal is to answer questions factually and not driven by emotion here. If things seem negative, look at the questions that were asked. If you’d like positive comments, ask questions that lend themselves to positive answers about the organization and I’ll answer. Few things in life are all good or all bad. Do I believe that JWs do more harm than good? Yes. Do I believe that they help some people? Yes. I can speak to both sides if asked.

As to whether to call them a cult or not, I gave my reasons and you don’t agree. Labels are often subjective to some degree. Call them a high control religion if you like, or fundamentalist, or whatever floats your boat. To me, the looming threat of disconnection for even thought crimes makes them a cult. The extremes they go to in indoctrinating and manipulating people to me is all warm and culty. They fit some of the dictionary definitions, and some cult experts lump them in with cults. If you disagree with the label, that’s cool too.

I will say that as I’ve awakened more and more, I can’t believe that I once believed what I did. I can’t believe that fear got me to turn off my critical thinking skills. It is like I had put on a "new personality ", a reference to a scripture that they referenced often. They wanted us to become something different, to become a JW in all things, and I can now see that so much of my true self was buried under the new personality of what I would call cult indoctrination. When you become a prescribed set of thoughts, feelings, and beliefs, to me that’s the result of a cult. I’ve watched people get involved in certain MLM companies and suddenly become someone different and it’s creepy. Call it what you will, but cult feels appropriate to me.

17

Sorry, back to work and I have a long day. Looks like I have lots to answer tonight as well. Looking forward to it.

18

While I don’t know personally, I suspect there is some sort of logical twisting along the same lines that mainstream Christianity uses to explain how the trinity of God the father, Jesus the son, and the Holy Spirit are somehow one monotheistic deity with different aspects. According to a Catholic friend of mine, “It’s a Mystery (with a capital M for important mystery of faith) because the nature of God is such that humans cannnot completely comprehend until we are in heaven.”

19

I am just curious how you and your wife got together on this. That is, how did you broach your doubts to her–or vice versa–without fear of being shunned by her? What woud happened had you finally reached the point of leaving and you realized she wouldn’t follow you?

It seems to me that one of the biggest aspects of cult behavior is the shunning of the ex-members. I guess it might be seen as natural, but not obligatory as it appears to be with the JWs.

This may be off-topic, but how do you compare them with Mormons. I raise this question because they are the only two groups and that ring my doorbell on a Saturday morning wanting to spread their gibberish. I no longer even answer the door when I see them outside.

20

Here’s another quickie to quell any controversy. JWs believe Jehovah to be Almighty God, and Jesus, while a mighty God, is his son. They are completely separate entities, as any father and son would be, but Jesus does reflect his father’s qualities and they’re united in purpose, on the same page so to speak. I hope that clarifies. Only Jehovah is supreme in their equation.