Innocent until proven guilty,
I haven’t read through this entire thread so I’m sorry if this point has already been made and debated, but are there honestly people in here who believe that if someone is racist that means for a fact that they would not vote for Cain?
Seriously? My dad is a definite racist, he makes disparaging and racist comments all the time. “She’s hot, for a black woman,” or “I’ll be the first to say it, he’s a decent mexican.” But just because he holds general negative opinions about a particular race (or gender, or sexual orientation, etc), does not mean that he hates every single individual of that group. Some racists, like my dad, will see past a person’s race every once in a while and find them to be a decent person. That doesn’t mean he isn’t a racist.
I can see it now. “I’m not a racist, I voted for Cain!” Puh-lease.
So, wait, a poll that says that 68% of Tea Party members would not support Cain for President, if he were their party’s nominee, is somehow proof that they’re not racist? Let me say that again: This poll says that over two thirds of the Tea Party would not support their own party’s nominee, if that nominee were Herman Cain.
Now, granted, there are plenty of other reasons to not want to support Cain other than his race, but still, that doesn’t really inspire a lot of confidence.
Tea Party or Republicans?
Why must they be “major groups”? Why that qualification?
Also, what would constitute a “major group” to you. What size must they be? Or is there some other metric?
Actually, he was, ex officio, the Family having merged with GP in 1983 . . .
It depends. Do you hate white Canadian illegal aliens with the same passion?
I know. I just got home.
Hating groups isn’t racist.
But plenty of Tea Party members don’t like Mexicans. Did you not notice that Perry lost his front-runner status after he mentioned he supported in-state tuition for the children of Mexican nationals?
Ie illegals. Same for Swedish, Botswanan, and Kiribati nationals who are illegally here.
You are free to imagine that the crowd of beetle-browed yokels at that Republican debate were booing Kiribati nationals if you should like.
Why is it so ignorant and terrible for the Tea Party to be racist (meaning the traditional “holding beliefs that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievements” as opposed to the more current “hate-based” definitions)? For all of western history until 50 years ago, this view was taken for granted. These days, I can’t think of anything which attaches more of a stigma - except perhaps being a pedophile.
Because people should know better now.
Why, yes, when you put it that way, racism is much more normal and acceptable than pedophilia! How very insightful!
What do you think that indicates? Seriously. To me it simply indicates that people, like me, are unsupportive of a policy that rewards illegal behavior and believe that it can act as a magnet for further illegals. It is no commentary on their “liking” or “not liking” Mexicans. Personally, I’m in contact with Mexicans constantly. If anything, I’m positively inclined toward then, finding them possessing a work ethic that we’ve lost here, much to our detriment. But that doesn’t mean that I need to be in favor of a policy that encourages more illegals to come here.
I’m actually surprised it took until post #69 for you to quote me. I knew it was coming, but thought it’d be earlier in the day with the way the thread was going. Thanks for keeping me amused in any case.
Anyway, although I could have phrased my sentiment a little better, I do stand by it. I admit it’d take some tortured, pretzel-logic to convince a reader that I meant its members are racist and not the organization itself, but regardless, the difference between what I wrote and what I meant is of so little consequence it is virtually meaningless. No sense getting into a parsing contest (heh).
The precipitous growth in the membership and influence of the Tea Party seemed to begin its spike around the time Obama’s presidency began to be seen as almost a fait accompli, at least that’s when I first became aware of them, and the decibel level continued to increase, in conjunction and in concert with a rise in open expressions of racism against Obama in particular and to an admittedly much smaller extent, blacks in general, as well as xenophobia against the invisible, in Wilkes-Barre PA anyway, Mexican threat, until months after Obama’s inauguration when it began to level off. It’s one thing to see racist signs on the TV news, it’s quite another, not to mention chilling, to see them in person while driving down a PA street on the way to work, not in 1959, but 2009.
Does my contention, including my personal experience, prove that the rank and file of the Tea Party are racist? Of course not. However, why would I conclude otherwise? Words and deeds, mi hermano. Words and deeds. If approximately 20 percent of the members of a local Tea Party chapter were openly and vociferously supportive of the ANP and/or KKK, what would you consider the other 80 percent? Clueless? Willfully ignorant? So no, I can’t “prove” the Tea Party is a racist organization. I can tell you they knowingly welcome(d) racists among their ranks which, in my opinion, makes them nothing less than sympathetic, if not philosophically aligned.
Even if you dismiss everything I’ve written above, you seem to be expressing incredulity in your OP that most members of an organization can be racist against black people if a third of its supporters see one as a potential tool through which to achieve its goals. How does that work exactly? Also, people use people. That, in and of itself, doesn’t make them racist. It doesn’t make them not racist either. The most you can say is that a third of the Tea Party may not be racist, but it also means that two thirds may be, so where does that leave your thesis?
Perhaps you’re not “saying” anything; rather, you’re just “asking the question.” I’ll be charitable and say that’s what you’re doing, because I don’t believe someone like you would ignore the history of black people being used for political gain as a cynical ploy or response to an action or circumstance, as recently as, yes, I’ll say it again, Michael Steele. Can you honestly sit there and tell me you believe that no white Tea Party supporter currently supporting Cain is racist? Not that they aren’t, but that you believe they aren’t? Have you never heard of racists hiring blacks? Have you never heard of openly racist white women who have sex with black men? I’m just trying to get a baseline here.
Believe as you will. I contend the Tea Party is not as “in love” with Cain as you purport. Cain will never get the Republican nomination and I’d be willing to put money on it…and yes, I know you haven’t said he will.
Of course not. Illegal Canadians aren’t flooding across the border in the hundreds of thousands, and there are no Canadians encouraging hatred against native born Americans or demanding special consideration or treatment for Canadians based on some bogus claim of victimhood. Nor do Canadians set up insular colonies of their own which become outposts of an alien culture. Their numbers are small enough and their culture is such that white Canadians can be easily absorbed and integrated into the rest our community, while huge numbers of Mexicans make little or no effort to do so and have little or no intention to do so. It is one thing to ask me to accept people of my own physical race and of a closely related culture, and demanding that I must accept people of a different race and substantially different culture who show little or no respect to my own people.
Mexicans and other Hispanics don’t come here because they want to live in peace and brotherhood with their beloved Anglo neighbors. They come here because they love our money. You really can’t see that?
Inasmuch as “racism” and “racist” are extremely foggy and imprecise terms which serve no purpose other than that of invective, it is quite insightful to note that no one should care the least little bit when they’ve been tagged as “racist.” Have you got something to contribute to this thread besides snark?
This is the part where the DA smiles, looks at the jury, and says, “No further questions, your honor.”
Because it’s ignorant and terrible. Ignorant because we now know better, and stubbornly holding on to beliefs that are untrue is ignorant, and this site is all about fighting ignorance. Terrible because the consequences of such beliefs are so bad for so many people, and not just for the groups deemed “inferior.”
This is the part where LP smiles and thinks, “Lobohan knows he doesn’t have any kind of reasonable answer to my post.”
No. It says that 68% of Tea Party members either have one of the other seven Republican candidates as their first choice, or they just don’t have a single first choice yet. Someone who wanted either Cain or Romney but didn’t mind which would be part of that 68%, for example.
It does not say that 68% of Tea Party members would not support Cain if he was the Republican candidate. If you believe that, you are wrong. Don’t make shit up to blackwash people with the “racism” tag.