The *REALLY* crazy conspiracy theory: WTC buildings downed by controlled demolition

A 110 story skyscraper is designed to stand straight up. It is not designed to hold together if the whole building is tipped over at an angle - this doesn’t mean that engineers sit down and say “How can we design this building so that it will not withstand the following load”, it means that said loading condition is not part of the design criteria in the first place. Designing something the size of WTC1/2 that will stay in one piece while leaning at, say, a 45 degree angle, would produce a very different building than existed.

Tall buildings are certainly designed with lateral loads in mind (wind and earthquakes), but those are a fraction of the dead load of the structure itself.

If you could somehow start tipping a structure that size over without snapping it, you’d very quickly hit a point where its own weight would overwhelm the lateral strength and the whole thing would start to fall to pieces. As soon as that happens all those chunks are going to start going straight down.

To give a very quick overview of how a collapse like WTC takes place, consider that you’ve got 110 floors of enormous area each, stacked on top of each other. It’s important to keep in mind the massive scale we’re dealing with, btw - it’s not like a garden shed that can hold itself up if you flip it on its side.

There’s a massive impact in one area which knocks out many of the vertical supports, locally. All the load which was being held by those supports now gets transferred to whatever alternate paths exist - so now other parts of the structure are getting overloaded. Something to think about is that a typical load/resistance combination is 1.4dead + 1.7live = 0.9*resistance, that’s the kind of limiting case that you deal with in structural design. Now in the remaining columns we’re probably carrying considerably more dead load than designed for, even given that 1.4 safety factor, but perhaps the live load isn’t too high at the moment so things are holding up.

Now we’ve got the fire - a few tons of jet fuel plus all the flammable stuff found in any office building. When structural steel gets heated to something like 800F it will lose about 50% of its strength (I can look up the exact numbers if you like). So now your already overloaded structure is facing the loss of half its strength - again, far worse than the 0.9 reduction used in the original design. Not surprising that something is going to give. This means that more vertical support is lost, and all that load has to go somewhere - you can see what’s going to happen, you get a progressive collapse where the weakest, most overloaded areas fail and all that load is dumped onto whatever’s handy, which in turn fails, reducing available support still further, and so on.

We haven’t even considered the fact that we aren’t dealing with a nice, gradual transfer of load - we may be looking at a sudden, catastrophic loss of vertical support so that one floor pretty much vanishes, and the entire dead load of all those floors above it drops down not in minutes or hours but in a second or less (ever stand on a coke can and then tap the side with your other foot - bang, the can is suddenly a pancake in an instant) - multiplying the damage to whatever is beneath. If I carefully hand you a 60 pound bag of sand you can hold it, if I drop it ten feet and tell you to catch it what happens?

So all those (relatively undamaged) floors above the impact/fire zone crash down, destroying the floor underneath the impact/fire zone. That whole mess just keeps going, with the mass of rubble increasing the load on each remaining floor it encounters.

Now recall that we’ve got enormous floors - hundreds of feet on a side. It’s not a single solid object, it’s a crumbling mass of overloaded steel and concrete. Sure some percentage will get scattered about, but the vast majority of it is going straight down and you’ll get a big heap of debris at the bottom.

Once again confirming that WTC 7 was the real target. :slight_smile:

Dear lord…

First of all, there were no “cores”. There was one core, which consisted of 47 columns. The individual columns were not all that large. What does being “bolted underground” mean? Do you honestly believe that these columns were single long pieces of steel? They were riveted together in much shorter sections. The floors wouldn’t “slide” around them–the collapse was a chaotic event that involved forces in all sorts of vectors. The core columns were not designed to withstand those forces. Further, they were supported laterally by the floor truss assemblies, braced against the perimeter columns. Once those were gone, there was nothing to hold the core up.
Again, “explosions” does not mean “bombs”. Of course things exploded–they’d be expected to. I mean that there were no sounds of demolition style explosives during the collapse. Explosions in the hour before the collapse are irrelevant; that’s not how demolition works.

Burning debris falling on a car will, indeed, incinerate that car. A pyroclastic surge would have left no survivors. None. Zero. Probably no bodies. It would have burned down most of lower Manhattan. Volcanic force is required to create pyroclastic surges. That is a fuckload of explosives.

They didn’t fall in free-fall (BTW, free-fall is not a “speed”). Exact timing is impossible because the lower sections of the towers were obscured by dust and smoke. Best estimates for collapse time are around 16 seconds. The building would not topple, it would fall straight down, into the structurally compromised remainder of the building, which was not designed to handle that type of load. Structural engineers the world over understand this principle, even those not on “the government payroll”.

Well given that many of the columns holding that building up formed the exterior of that building, and given that a large jet airplane travelling at ungodly speed went though the side of said building, may I ask what you think happened to said columns? Perhaps only the windows broke?

You’re making a lot of statements about what is and is not structurally possible. I repeat my earlier question - what education do you have regarding structural engineering that allows you to make such definitive remarks?

A Refutation of the Official Collapse Theory

http://janedoe0911.tripod.com/BilliardBalls.html

Or these shots of the cloud of smoke from the Oakland Hills Firestorm, blanketing the entire Bay Area. The fire took place on in some wooded hills in a lightly developed area, which as we all know, tend to be oxygen poor enviroments.

(And just because this thread needs it, here’s a picture of a fireman who rescued a kitty.)

Valgard Thank you for that explanation.

The demolitiones of 1 and 2 aren’t fully understood. They are not conventional demolitions since it starts at the top with the cutting charges. But Thermate was detected and a hydrocarbon fire couldn’t make molten rivers of metal.

Physicist Steven E. Jones Study:

http://journalof911studies.com/volume/200704/JonesWTC911SciMethod.pdf

Oops - you seem to have left out the page where Judy Woods claims that a Star Wars Beam Weapon brought down the towers.

Or is it your position that you agree with her regarding the collapse of the towers while disagreeing with her about a beam weapon?

Apparently you think the towers were made out of wood, straw, and mud.

You really don’t want to hang your hat on Judy Woods.

Why the bombs in the basement then? (Don’t answer that.)

There were not molten rivers of metal, unless your referring to the cascade out of the side of tower two just before the collapse, which could, indeed, have been caused by hydrocarbon fires. Thermate was not found. Sulfur was found. Sulfur is a minor ingredient in thermate, barium nitrate, which was not found, is a major ingredient (29% vs. 2%). What there was a lot of in the towers was drywall, which is generally made of gypsum, which is a sulfur compound.

Would you like to try any canards that have not been thoroughly and repeatedly debunked. This is shooting the proverbial fish in the proverbial barrel.

I see no one wants to address the possibility that the US govt. planned to independnetly blow up the buildings that day, and the planes crashing into them were just a fortunate coincidence?

What kills me about all the, “It was designed to withstand being hit by an airplane, so the airplane couldn’t have destroyed it,” arguments is that the people who make them must not have ever owned a piece of consumer electronics in their lives. Right now I’ve got an XBox 360 that was designed to turn on when you press the power button, and to open it’s disc tray when the eject button is pressed. For some reason, it stopped turning on when I pressed the power button, so I sent it back to be repaired. When I got it back, the power button worked fine, but the disc tray wouldn’t open. So I have to send it back again. Because when people make stuff, sometimes they fuck it up. This applies to XBoxes and office towers alike. They say the WTC was designed to survive being hit by a plane, but it’s not like they ever fucking tested it, is it? Well, not until 9/11, when it turned out, Oops! Wasn’t as tough as we’d thought!

Not to mention that it was designed to withstand being hit by a much smaller airplane…I think they thought along the lines of a 707, not a 757.

And you are right, it’s all theoretical anyway, at a certain point.

This is going to just keep going, isn’t it?

The Empire State Buidling was hit by a B-25 During WWII and didn’t fall :wink:

OMG, you’re right!!! And Cory Lidle’s plane didn’t cause that building to fall either! Conspiracy!!! :smiley:

(Believe it or not, I have seen that argument.)

Just in case anyone missed the smiley:
A B-25 weighed 35,000 lbs., fully loaded and the plane that hit the Empire State building was not loaded and was even low on fuel.
The maximum take-off weight for a Boeing 767 is more than ten times that amount: 395,000 lbs. (The planes that hit the WTC were not at maximum weight, but that should give an idea of the scale we’re talking about.)
Heck, the fuel in a 767 weighs several times the weight of a fully loaded B-25, with (again, maximum) 23,980 U.S. gallons weighing around 190,000 lbs.

I said in my post that I didn’t believe the Star Wars thing but it had good pictures.

There were molten pools of metal under all three buildings.

http://911research.com/wtc/evidence/moltensteel.html