The *REALLY* crazy conspiracy theory: WTC buildings downed by controlled demolition

Great Debates
121

Exactly. And then the parameters of the hypothetical crash they envisioned were far exceeded and the buildings didn’t react as they had hoped. But the guy (DeMartini) who made the prediction about the crash-worthiness in an interview being posted right and left as a factual statement isn’t alive to say Oops!

Do you (CTs, not Miller) think DeMartini would stand by his statement in that interview after seeing that the exterior columns were indeed compromised by the impacts? Not to mention the central columns, there were compromised columns on the perimeters of the buildings.

Oh, that’s right. Thermite charges set in exactly the outline of a jet on both buildings at precisely the points of impact, set to go off within milliseconds of the plane’s impact to make it LOOK like the planes went through the buildings!

Brilliant!

122

Please go back and read all the previously linked threads that have been posted.

You are covering the same old tired ground that multitudes of conspiracy theorists already have. They presented the same evidence you are presenting. Exactly. The. Same. The rebuttles to the evidence are already posted, all you have to do is go read it.

Trust me, you will not convince anybody with the same old evidence that’s been trotted out time and again. It’s just not going to happen.

The only thing that IS certain: In another month or two, somebody else will pop in here to fill the void left by you when you finally give up and move on.

123

Yet you cite her " research" as evidence.

Proving what, precisely? Explosives (which don’t melt metal, and certainly wouldn’t provide the sort of constant heat needed to keep it molten for several weeks), or thermite/thermate, (which reacts extremely rapidly and would require mind-numbingly huge amounts to keep melting metal for several weeks)?

124

My pleasure. The scale is what gets ya - by any rational measure something like the WTC is a fortress, however once you start going well beyond the rational design criteria things get very messy.

Silk One, I’m still waiting to hear what qualifications you possess that enable you to knowledgeably discuss structural engineering, structural demolition, explosives or thermite.

Papermache Prince, I clearly demonstrated in my earlier post that a Star Wars Beam Weapon could not have been responsible. The only alternative explanation is an Illudium Q36 Disintegrator, commonly if incorrectly known as a “Space Demodulator”. The difference is immediately obvious as the Star Wars stuff makes a “ZOINK” sound whereas the Q36 produces an Earth-shattering Kaboom.

:smiley:

125

We can play this game all night.

ETA: God it’s depressing that there’s even a need for sites like that.

126

It is sort of fun, in a frustrating, perverse kind of way.

127

I will bet anyone who wants to make the bet a double sawbuck that 25 years from now, at least one third of U.S. citizens, and an essentially similar fraction of Canadians, Britons, etc., will believe the WTC was destroyed by a U.S. government conspiracy. Within 40 years - but I might be dead by then so I want my money sooner - it’ll be between 40 and 50 percent, and maybe higher.

I mean, there is no real evidence - none whatsoever - that JFK was shot by anything or anyone other than Lee Harvey Oswald, but zillions of people think otherwise. The theory that the USA knew the attack on Pearl Harbor was coming is absurd, completely unsupported by direct evidence, and doesn’t really make any sense, but lots of people believe it. A great many people think the CIA invented crack, you know. There is of course zero evidence to back this up. People believe John Edward and Kevin Trudeau.

For fuck’s sake, millions of people believe that forGodssakes SPACE ALIENS have visited the Earth and that the government is covering that up. Space aliens, for the love of Christ. Like E.T. and Chewbacca and shit. Many people believe that these extraterrestrials, who never seem to leave any physical evidence and whose appearance has, amazingly, changed over the years to match the aliens in popular science fiction are actually abducting people and sticking things in their asses. How can you possibly top something that insane? If people will believe something like that, what WON’T they believe?

There is no end to the idiocy people will swallow when it comes to this sort of shit. It doesn’t matter what you say or what evidence you show them. We have seen in this very thread a person **shown an actual picture of the WTC engulfed in a horrific, gigantic inferno, almost entirely covering a dozen or more floors of one of the most massive office buildings ever built, ** who came back and wrote, in absolute sincerity, that it was just “pretty small fires”, and that fires with black smoke are “oxygen deprived.”

Trust me: There is no end to this. It doesn’t matter a whit how many facts you trot out. It doesn’t matter how many times you point out the lies. You can point out that there were no pools of molten steel, that the steel didn’t have to melt to destroy the building, that the building did not collapse at “free fall speed,” that to set the charges would have taken hundreds of man-days of work, that it doesn’t make any fucking sense at all. Doesn’t matter; some people simply cannot think critically and don’t know bullshit when they see it, so they watch “Loose Change” and think they’re in on a big secret rather than asking hard questions and parsing the chaff from the wheat.

This conspiracy theory is going to become more popular and there isn’t jack you or I can do about it. Be prepared to be pissed off.

128

Let’s take a look at the first video Silk Road provided:

Very interesting. It compares the WTC collapses with a video of the demolition of another skyscraper. And the video notes that there are “squibs” going off on each.

Except there’s a very important difference between those videos. On the controlled demolition the squibs go off along the building and then the building starts to collapse. When the WTC collapsed, the collapse happened first, and as the top floors are falling to the ground, “squibs” of material start to be ejected from the lower floors.

Now, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, this does not make sense. Why set off explosive charges AFTER the building is already collapsing?! Once the building starts to collapse there’s no need to do anything else. So the plan is, ram a jet into the side of each tower, wait for the tower to start to collapse, THEN set off the explosives? Wouldn’t it make sense to set off the explosives first, which will then cause the building to collapse? I mean, if the explosives are what caused the building to collapse, wouldn’t the explosives happen first? See, according to the laws of logic in our universe, causes must happen before effects. If something happens after something else, it logically cannot be the cause of the first thing.

I just want to repeat this again. If the explosives were set off after the buildings started to collapse, the explosives did not cause the building to collapse. See how that works? First one thing happens, then another thing. Isn’t it more likely that the first thing caused the second thing, than for the second thing to operate backwards in time to cause the first thing?

And that’s what happened. As the material is falling inside the towers as the towers collapse, it creates a wave of air. That air breaks open windows and ejects material out of the lower floors. The squibs…because they happen after the building starts to collapse…must be an EFFECT of the collapse, not a CAUSE of the collapse.

Silk Road, what do you say in your defense? Did the “squibs” happen before the building started to collapse, or after? I saw the video you posted. They happen after. So much for the theory that the “squibs” are evididence of demolition explosives.

129

Rickjay:

I have the feeling you’re right, which makes me very sad. But maybe, just maybe, the internet will put a damper on such trends. On the one hand the CTs can use it to spread their misinformation but, on the bright side, people can show them the error of their ways and maybe stop it before it spreads too much.

Silk Road:

As for the molten steel which doesn’t exist, what if it did? What if there were big pools of molten steel found weeks later after the rubble was removed? What would that even mean? Alien technology? It doesn’t make any sense.

130

Well, controlled demolitions typically leave pools of molten steel underneath the rubble. Big pools of molten steel that take weeks to cool. So that would mean…wait, no they don’t. Controlled demolitions don’t leave pools of molten steel. So…I got nuttin.

131

Because there was nothing to fight the fire with. The water was cut off from the collapsing towers.

Experience. Are you suggesting that the NYFD were in on its demolition? If so, why have none of them mentioned this little fact? Are you saying they were all bribed?

It was much more than a ‘small chunk’.

ITs not free fall. Start counting from the time the PENTHOUSE STRUCTURE collapses into the structure. That’s your start point.

Blown with silent explosives, apparently. Hush-a-boom, anyone?

132

Mods, since this one keeps cropping up from time to time, would it make any sense to have a “WTC/9-11” sticky linking to the various threads? Perhaps with a little note to the effect of “Thou shalt not start 9-11 threads unless it’s about something not already beaten to death in previous threads”?

133

You might sent several unintentional consequences with this action so you probably should think it through. For instance, this may impact the next round of Bush/Clinton is the sux! type threads. It will certainly impact the next bozo who comes along to inform us that Big Foot is real, UFO’s are real, magic and or psy powers are real, global warming is…er, not real :stuck_out_tongue: …and Elvis never died but instead has become the ‘goat sucker’ of legend, living his half life by killing the live stock of poor hispanics everywhere…

:stuck_out_tongue:

Just sayin…

-XT

134

Wouldn’t that be a shame :slight_smile:

135

I am not an engineer or a fire fighter. I have questions:

“Black smoke means small, oxygen starved fire”? Huh? I thought the color of the smoke had a lot more to do with what was burning… in this case, jet fuel, carpets, ceiling tiles, plastic faux-plants, etc.

“Explosions heard”. When steel is placed under great stress, say for example, enough to cause a support girder to fail, doesn’t it fail in a dramatic fashion? I am not talking about a slow bending motion (“there is no spoon”), but something that looks a lot like an explosion?

136

The thing I find most compelling (as all the technical details can be easily imagined away by people that don’t understand them) is trying to figure out who placed the charges to bring down the buildings. Demolishing easily the two biggest buildings ever demolished, plus one that’s pretty damn big by the standards of anything ever brought down in a controlled explosion? Already it’s the biggest job in the field of controlled demolitions.

Doing it surreptitiously, under cover of night, in a building still being used? Without ever leaving any evidence? Disguising it as a terrorist act? While seventeen billion TV cameras are likely to be recording it live?

And yet, no one in the entire field has ever admitted to knowing anything about the grandest scale treason ever perpetuated in American history. No wife has come forward to mention that her husband was gone every night in August, 2001 on some secret demolition job in New York. No one in the upper echelons of demolitions experts has recalled being approached by the government to help murder thousands of innocent civilians and turned the job down.

So, we’re asked to believe that the US government pulled off the single greatest feat of controlled demolition ever, in secret, involving everyone involved as mass murderers and traitors, and no one involved has ever spilled enough beans to raise a few eyebrows? Where did the government recruit a crack squad of ninja demolitions experts without any sense of morality, and how did they manage not to run across a single ninja demolitions expert with enough morals to feel the need to talk in the past almost six years?

And, even if they could somehow pull off this insanely unlikely plan, what fucking benefit is there to take any additional risks to bring down WTC 7?

And that’s the second area where the conspiracy theories fail. They make some sense in retrospect, but if you try looking at them from a pre-9.11 standpoint, the logic just breaks down. If one needed to stage some terrorist attacks for whatever purpose, the ones that happened involved incredible risks and huge chances of failure.

A few examples:

If the airplanes missed the towers by some chance, then you’ve got two building sitting there with evidence all over them.

The explosive charges might be noticeable when they go off (in addition to the fact that nobody’s ever imploded a 110 story building, I don’t think anyone’s ever tried to conceal a controlled demolition).

Letting the NYFD crawl all over the buildings involved for a couple hours before setting off the charges is simply stupid.

If you’re an administration that has a hard time finding competent people to fill posts like Attorney General (really, John Ashcroft was, by far, the better of the two, and that’s saying something) or head of FEMA, where do you find someone who has managed to create the biggest secret ever kept in the history of the world?

137

You win this thread. Simultaneously hilarious and depressingly true.

138

This is the thing that amazes me. Anyone can look at the pictures or video and know what that fire was like, exactly as you describe it. You don’t have to rely on bogus accounts of workers seeing molten steel in the wreckage, or half-assed explanations of what controlled demolitions are supposed to look like. You can look at the picture with your own eyes and see that inferno. What is it about conspiracy theories that make people lose all sense of reason?

139

This is a meme which has become common among conspiracy theorists. It is not in any way based in fact. Black smoke is not an indication of a fire that is oxygen-starved, cold, about to go out, or “not burning properly”. It does indicate incomplete combustion, with a lot of sooty particulate matter in the smoke, but this is caused by the nature of the fuel being burned. Flammable material like plastics, plywood, carpeting, upholstery, paper, bodies of dead people, will give off thick black smoke when burning, even when given access to unlimited oxygen.

Photos and video of the towers show that the fires only spread and intensified in the time between the impacts and the collapses. Both buildings showed fires extending the entire width of the building face on multiple fires before they collapsed. A modern office contains a surprisingly large amount of flammable material, and tests of office fires conducted before and after 9/11 have demonstrated that ordinary office fires can generate sufficient heat to dangerously weaken steel structures.

It is useful to look at the eyewitness accounts of the explosions in the basement, and in particular the kinds of injuries reported. The injuries described are consistently the same: skin hanging off, hair and clothes burned, caking of black soot. These injuries are consistent with flash-burns as would be caused by a cloud of burning vapor. High explosives such as would be used to cut support beams do not cause these kinds of injuries. Explosives would cause injuries by shock and concussion trauma, and shrapnel wounds, not thermal damage. Anybody close enough to a demolition charge to be burned will also be blown apart by the shock wave. So we can see that the explosions in the basement are consistent with what you’d expect from kerosene pouring down the elevator shafts and igniting, not explosives.

140

There’s a clip at the 1:10 mark in that video that shows the beginning of the collapse of one of the towers. It’s very obvious that the collapse starts with a structural failure of the floors that are on fire. What’s the conspiracy theory answer for that? How could any demolitions charge still be functional in that inferno? And once the top of the building is falling, why bother setting off charges on lower floors? There’s far more destructive energy in 100,000 tons of debris in free fall than there are in a few demolition charges. Once the top of the building drops the collapse of the rest is inevitable.