The "Republicans are too far to the right" notion

Inspired by this thread and endless talk in countless places. Some folks think that because the 'Pub candidates have shifted so far rightward, a large Democratic victory is guaranteed. I do not see history as validating that view. Let’s look at the elections since 1980.

The Republicans have won big in Presidential elections on four occasions: 1980, 1984, 1988, and 2004. The Democrats have won (by margins large enough to prevent the Supreme Court from overturning the result) on three occasions: 1992, 1996, and 2008. I don’t think anyone would claim that the Republicans ran particularly centrist candidates or emphasized compromise and moderation in any of the years where they won. In the years they lost, 1992 did feature some very conservative rhetoric, particular Pat Robertson’s speech at the convention. We might count that year as supporting the hypothesis, but that’s the only one. In 1996 and 2008, however, the GOP nominated old dudes who appeared to have a more middle-leaning, don’t-rock-the-boat approach.

In Congressional elections, the GOP won big in 1994 and 2010. In neither election did they take a centrist or compromising position; just the opposite, in fact. The Democrats won big in 2006, and one could argue that certain right-wing positions taken by the GOP contributed to that, though the failing Iraq War was certainly the biggest driving force.

So we see only two years, 1992 and 2006, where the Republicans suffered a large defeat after running to the right. We see many more years where the results argue against the hypothesis. Now 2012 could turn out to imitate the pattern from 1992 and 2006, but it would be foolish to simply assume that must happen.

Agreed. And I would go further and say that 1992 and 2006 weren’t exceptions.

In 1992, Bush I had violated his promise to not raise taxes and was a luke, warm candidate for the right. He also faced arguably the most charismatic politician in the 20th century.

In 2006, we were fresh off of the Bush II/Katrina and Harriet Myers boondoggle which reinforced to most of the right that he was a buffoon. The deficits were rising and he continued to support big government programs. This was then the right left him. But once again, the GOP wasn’t hampered by being too far right. They were forced to run under the leadership of Bush and votes on NCLB, the unpopular war in Iraq, the Medicare Prescription Drug Plan, and the pork in the Transportation Bill (Bridge to Nowhere). Again, not exactly conservative principles.

Republicans have been successful when they nominate a candidate who can articulate conservative principles and be otherwise seen as a likeable guy. The American people are not running from right wing GOP philosophy.

It seems like it would be foolish to try and call any election this early. However, your analysis of whether the GOP went to the far right in each of those election years is not the only issue. You touch on one with your comments on the Iraq war. There are a great number of things that influence elections, and certainly not all are covered when you discuss moving rightward.

However, I would point out that there have been several formerly high-ranking republicans who have spoken out against the party this year, and I think those defections may sway independents to thinking that perhaps the GOP went too far right.

Plus, today’s Blunt vote may end up being an albatross for them come November. It certainly is in my books. One of Iowa’s reps (Steve King) even said recently that he would support the right of a state to ban contraception.

I have to step up here. In 1980, Reagan won a hair over 50% of the vote. Hardly the landslide that his 1984 reelection was. If Carter had been able to negotiate/rescue the Iran hostages, he likely would have had a second term.

Hang on. While in the 2000 GOP primary McCain might have seemed “middle-leaning” due to his “maverick” stance, in 2008 he was shamelessly pandering the right-wing GOP base.

That said…

I agree with this. Just because the GOP primary resembles the clown act at Ringling Brothers is no recent to get complacent. Fortunately, given his kick-ass speech at the UAW, President Obama is well aware of this.

It takes two. You have to analyze who they were running against and the conditions in the country at the time.

Presidential elections really have only two issues: whether the bases, right and left, can be fired up to guarantee voting and which way the center - the indifferents - falls.

National elections in non-presidential years make this clear, because the indifferents tend not to vote. The number of voters went down by half from 2008 to 2010. But one group - the far right - actually increased its percentage of voters. Naturally, far right candidates did exceptionally well in that election. The fall from 2004 to 2006 went the other way, with the right less enthusiastic and thereby enabling a Democratic takeover.

As late as the 1960s, both parties had liberal, moderate, and conservative wings and could run candidates who would generally appeal to majorities in local districts, even if they were out of the party’s mainstream. That world is gone. Republicans are far right and right; Democrats are centrist and left. (There is no far-left voting block of any size anywhere in the country.)

The rest are a motley group. Some are true independents, most are what I call the indifferents - there don’t pay much attention, they don’t want to have to pay attention. They are repelled by extremists on both sides. Their votes cannot be counted on, and they are very likely to be swayed by negative advertising because it’s easier for them to latch onto a reason to vote against rather than making the effort to learn what to vote for. Conversely, give them a charismatic candidate, with a positive message, and they will surge toward him.

You see where I’m going with this. This year, more than any previous presidential cycle, is going to be decided by swing voters. They’ll have every reason to be repelled by extremist positions, and the charismatic optimistic candidate is the one who is already in office.

In some years this would be offset by the extremism firing up the base. But Romney is not the base’s candidate; those who’ve been energized for the primaries will be on the outside of the actual campaign. I don’t think this will sink the Republican vote significantly, but it precludes the 2010 rise that worked so well for Republicans. Liberals may be somewhat disappointed by Obama’s performance but that will also translate into almost no effect.

The bottom line is that Romney is more electable than Santorum or any of the others precisely because he is not running to the right in the primaries. Most of what’s being said now will be forgotten by September, after the primaries, when the indifferents finally tune in. But independents are already running towards Obama, by double digits in most polls, and if the larger Republican party continues to make scary statements that can be used against them, this trend will take over the indifferents. Since the only states that count in the final result are a few swing states that are likely to be decided by them, this is a grossly disproportionate few percent of the total population.

The Republican mainstream has every reason to be scared and is already showing it. Look at the paucity of endorsements Gingrich has gotten from current Representatives and Santorum has received from current Senators. Look at where the big money is going. Look at what past leaders have been saying. The establishment is gibbering at the thought of a base conservative getting the nomination. Local politics can be swayed by a fired-up segment; the establishment gets what it wants in a national election. That’s why I’ve been saying for a year that Romney will get the nomination and the others had a 0% chance, not a low percent chance. They’ll get it but the price they had to pay is huge, and probably decisive, which is why I’ve also been saying that Obama will win, although I haven’t put a 100% guarantee on that. Indifferents, by definition, are not predictable.

Reagan is a huge factor. Regardless of how you felt about his politics, he was a charismatic person who voters liked. So support for Reagan doesn’t necessarily equate to support for conservatism.

Now Reagan won in 1980 and 1984. And realistically Bush won in 1988 by riding on Reagan’s coattails.

Take those elections off the table and what do you have? Clinton won in 1992 and 1996. Gore got more votes in 2000 although Bush won the electoral college. Bush was a wartime incumbent in 2004 and was just barely re-elected (50.7% is not “winning big”). And Obama won in 2008.

You can see why every Republican in the last thirty years has invoked Reagan. Without Reagan as a factor, Republicans have lost four elections in the general vote and won one by a very narrow margin.

Ya think? Mike Huckabee could never beat Obama. (Though I’m sure he could come nearer than of this year’s GOP crop.)

Yeah, but it’s not 1980 or 1984 anymore. In fact it’s a different world in some ways. People feel radically different about some issues now than they did then. Like gay marriage, or contraception, or DADT. Things have shifted, and the Republicans seem, above all, to want to return to another time, to go back. I think even people who wish it were so are recognizing it’s just not possible, in so many ways.

The Republicans can get traction going right on taxes and spending, but they blow it with the Talibornagain lunacy.

You folks do realize that 1980 was over 30 years ago? America is a much different place now, and the fact is that Conservatives are far more being hamstrung by their most ardent true believers. Remember, Reagan raised taxes and lowered taxes, recall that Reagan had no problem running a deficit, Reagan negotiated with the major US adversary, the Soviet Union. He may have been as principled, but he was also able to be far more pragmatic when actually governing than the current crop is. Maybe it is due to social media or the 24 hour news cycle, but it seems the Republican base is far more demanding of purity out of its candidates than at any time ever. What is the issue is whether a Republican candidate can survive the primary season with enough moderate cred to win a general election. That was why I started that thread. So yes, I don’t believe the comparisons hold out because so much is different. I could be wrong, but I don’t think so. Keep in mind that only one incumbent lost in that period you discuss, and that was the Republican. The probelm for Republicans this time around is that the economy is recovering and lkely will be even better when November rolls around (gas prices could hamper that). As long as things are trending in the right direction folks will not want to upset things too much and a candidate that has been forced to be somewhat extreme in his rhetoric won’t stand a chance.

In the 2008 'Pub primary, each of the leading Republicans had a mixed bag of stances. Giuliani was perceived as socially very liberal but extremely tough on foreign policy, Huckabee as economically liberal and more to the right on social issues, and McCain had bucked the Republican establishment on campaign finance, global warming, and civil rights. (Romney was the same empty suit then as now.) None of the leading candidates could really be classified as entirely far right or centrist, but McCain did not take any notable far right positions.

You’re right about the election of 1980; I didn’t remember the exact numbers.

You may also recall that back then there were people called the 'Reagan Democrats". Regan was capable of appealing to people across the aisle. This year I’m hearing a lot more about “Obama Republicans” than about “Romney Democrats”.

I guess we’ll find out if the GOP has moved too far to the right to get elected, but just today I found this post from VoteView that finds that Republicans are moving rightward at a greater clip than Dems move leftward.

And, having recognized that, how do they vote? That is, what appealing or at least tolerable way is left for them to vote?

Interesting. By that measure, Obama is more conservative than Clinton is more conservative than Carter, whom nobody ever called a “socialist” AFAIK, so what makes Obama one?!

The real question, IMO, is which party is moving to the right quicker.

But the reason for the losses was not that Republicans are nominating right wing lunatics that appeal to their base. Unless Bush I, Dole, and McCain count. And the “loss” you count was Bush II who should have lost by double digits due to a robust economy, but still eeked out a win because people thought Gore was too far left.

So, the OP is correct. Other than Goldwater in 1964, the GOP has never nominated a candidate that lost because he was too far to the right.

Please bear in mind that shifting more and more insanely to the extreme was exactly what American New-Left radicalism did in the 1970s, just before it lost relevance entirely and forever. And just after the New-Left-inspired, McGovernik “New Politics” movement took over the Democratic Party, and did it electoral-viability damage from which it took 20 years to begin to recover. Pubs and Tea Partiers take note.

GHW Bush was all about compromise. He was trying to compromise between his economic conservatism and the country’s more pro-regulatory bias.

GW Bush ran as a pro-Latin “compassionate conservative” in 2000, and arguably Kerry lost in 2004 due to not being different enough for the anti-war left (also for not having the stones to challenge ballot-box stuffing).

Yes, there is a base for reactionaries, but I think the present GOP have a problem. Every of them but Romney is, compared to the Bushes, relatively anti-Latin (including the guy with a Latin name).

Obama has confirmed to jingoistic swing voters that he is no “weaker” on war than the GOP. So the question is whether Obama is too right-wing for the anti-war progressives. Maybe he is, but we gain little and lose much from letting Santorum take over, and Romney is the 1%.