The Right and its persecution complex.

Sam, an excellent post. I wish it were mine…but frankly, I just don’t have the patience. Congratulations on a job well done and well said.

kaylaspop, you ascribe too much to my ambitions. Like I’ve said, I’m merely stating my opinions and, on occasion, blowing off steam. As far as the invisible audience that I’m supposed to be so cunningly cultivating, I’m afraid that the subtle and subliminal attempts at manipulating it that you see exist only in your own mind.

I am flattered however, that you would suspect me of such complex machinations. However, this perceived deviousness is a two-edged sword and it perhaps speaks more of your manipulative inclinations than it does of mine.

Harborwolf, I’m disappointed. You expressed sincere mystification as to the perception and/or nature of liberal media bias and a desire to “get to the bottom of it.” I provided not only examples of my own as to how the media handles the news in such a way that the result is to cast a favorable light on the left and a negative light on the right. And given that much of what I described you had heard from me before, I recommended an excellent book written by a leftist but thoroughly objective reporter and long time employee of CBS.

Your response was indeed to “blow me off”, even though you state this wasn’t your intent. If you truly wanted to know why the media is perceived (or more accurately, recognized) as being biased, you would be interested in giving Goldberg’s book a read, even if for no other reason than to add to your alleged desire to understand where the claim of liberal media bias comes from.

Sorry about the odd sentence structure and omissions in the first paragraph to Harborwolf. Editing is sometimes not my friend.

I meant to say, I provided not only examples of my own as to how the media handles the news in such a way that the result is to cast a favorable light on the left and a negative light on the right, but, given that much of what I described you had heard from me before, I also recommended an excellent book written by a leftist but thoroughly objective reporter and long time employee of CBS.

Etc.

Too late Starving Artist, Goldberg has been discussed before and there are examples that he made many mistakes or purposely mislead the readers:

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=4917989&postcount=48

And here is what happened when Al franklen confronted Goldberg on this:
http://www.alternet.org/story/16157/

Here, have some more crow:
http://www.crowbusters.com/recipes.htm

Whether intentionally manipulative or otherwise, I see a danger in allowing simplistic and poorly thought-out arguments to go unanswered.

As for any manipulative inclinations harbored within my own breast, I’ll just say that I have made a solemn vow to use them only for good, or at least for self-defense.

  • kaylasdad, impressionable :smiley:

I warned Harborwolf about the inevitable objections to this book that he was bound to hear in the hope that he would read it and come to his own conclusions…or at least learn what it is that we who complain of left-wing bias in the media are talking about. If this is the worst you (and Franken) can come up with out of an entire book on the subject, I contend it’s still an excellent read.

The book does an superb job overall of describing the nature of left-wing bias in the media and how it came into being. I would imagine that just about any book written could be shown to have an error or two in it. The one you mention hardly negates the undeniable factual information and insights contained throughout the entire book.

The only people who would use an error such as this to negate the entire book are people who are looking for an excuse to do so in the first place.

So do I, hence my participation (even if on rare occasion, erroneously so :smiley: ) on these boards.

Nope, there are more examples than that:

http://www.americanprogress.org/site/pp.asp?c=biJRJ8OVF&b=35124

Crow is very tasty nowadays it seems. :smiley:

It looks like Goldberg is just another lazy, dishonest rightwing shill. Any time I start wondering about the liberal left wing bias, all I have to do is listen to Limbaugh, Hannity, or the others of their kind, watch Fox News, or read the Wall Street Journal, NY Times, etc. They all, in their own way, say “Praise the Leader. Hail Bush.” They talk about his “vision” and “steadfastness” and “religousness” blah blah. They gloss over or play apologist for his many lies and outrageous displays of incompetence. Sometimes they flat out lie.

Don’t tell me. After reading Goldbergs book, I have to watch the Doors right? :wink:

I was going to post more than that, but I have to eat and run someplace. I’ll get back to this later. If I get time, I’ll check Sam Stones cites tonight. If I don’t, I’ll check them tommorrow.

Seth Ackerman, Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting, August 2001 - “Years ago, Republican party chair Rich Bond explained that conservatives’ frequent denunciations of ‘liberal bias’ in the media were part of ‘a strategy’ (Washington Post, 8/20/92). Comparing journalists to referees in a sports match, Bond explained: ‘If you watch any great coach, what they try to do is’work the refs.” Maybe the ref will cut you a little slack next time.’"

Bill Kristol -‘The press isn’t quite as biased and liberal. They’re actually conservative sometimes,’ Kristol said recently on CNN. If Chris missed that one, he might have come across a similar admission by Kristol offered up in the spring of 1995. ‘I admit it,’ Kristol told The New Yorker. ‘The whole idea of the ‘liberal media’ was often used as an excuse by conservatives for conservative failures.’

Norman Solomon, Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting, undated - ‘The truth is, I’ve gotten fairer, more comprehensive coverage of my ideas than I ever imagined I would receive,’ Buchanan acknowledged in March 1996. He added: ‘I’ve gotten balanced coverage and broad coverage – all we could have asked.’

Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting, June 2002 - A study of ABC World News Tonight, CBS Evening News and NBC Nightly News in the year 2001 shows that 92 percent of all U.S. sources interviewed were white, 85 percent were male and, where party affiliation was identifiable, 75 percent were Republican.

Geoffrey Nunberg, The American Prospect, May 6, 2002 - [T]here was a discrepancy in the frequency of labeling, but not in the way [Bernard] Goldberg [author of Bias] – or for that matter, I – assumed. On the contrary, the average liberal legislator has a better than 30 percent greater likelihood of being given a political label than the average conservative does. The press describes [Barney] Frank as a liberal two-and-a-half times as frequently as it describes [Dick] Armey as a conservative. It labels [Barbara] Boxer almost twice as often as it labels [Trent] Lott, and labels [Paul] Wellstone more often than [Jesse] Helms.

E.J. Dionne, Washington Post, December 6, 2002 - It took conservatives a lot of hard and steady work to push the media rightward. It dishonors that work to continue to presume that – except for a few liberal columnists – there is any such thing as the big liberal media. The media world now includes (1) talk radio, (2) cable television and (3) the traditional news sources (newspapers, newsmagazines and the old broadcast networks). Two of these three major institutions tilt well to the right, and the third is under constant pressure to avoid even the pale hint of liberalism. These institutions, in turn, influence the burgeoning world of online news and commentary.

San Francisco Examiner, undated - The biggest lie fed the American people by conservative pundits is that the United States is dominated by the ‘liberal media.’ As if Rupert Murdoch, Michael Eisner, General Electric, Time-Warner AOL and Viacom are owned and operated by liberals.
Not only are these folks ultra-conservatives, but the people they hire to voice their opinions are so far to the right, they give independent journalism a dirty name. No, my friends, the corporate media is in the hands of right-wing kooks parading as moderates and pushing the political envelope further and further to the right.

Jack F.K. Bungart, Vallejo Times-Herald, January 5, 2002 -
If there is in fact a liberal media, it sure has been taking a lot of time off.
Where was it during the Clinton years? Long before Monica, the press went after the Democratic, supposedly liberal president with a vengeance that took even longtime Washington observers – many of them Republican – by surprise.
Where was it during Clinton’s alleged runway haircut fiasco early in his first term? Or the supposed destruction of the White House by departing Clinton staffers? Both stories, widely reported as fact, have since been convincingly rebuked.
Where was it during Campaign 2000 [see below], after which two separate – and non-partisan – study groups determined that George W. Bush, not Al Gore, received the more glowing, less critical headlines and coverage?
Where was it when Gore was mocked mercilessly for supposedly claiming to have invented the Internet? Or be the subject of ‘Love Story’? Neither actually happened, but hoo boy, the Beast knows good copy when it sees it.
Where was it during the Condit feeding frenzy, when one look at a 24-hour cable channel made it look like – lack of any real evidence be damned – the Democratic congressman would be indicted any second on murder charges?
Where was it during the lazy, dismissive coverage of the follow-up to the Florida recount, which attempted to tidily wrap up what was as murky a mess as ever?
How odd it is that the whine against the so-called liberal media seems to always come from the same ever-expanding conservative media that buries presidents before inauguration day, acts as if the art of politicians blocking legislation only happens on one side of the aisle and loosely throws around murder accusations as if they’re passes during touch football games.

The liberal media is a myth, a lie. There is no such thing. If the president fucks up and his people fuck up, that is news. To report it, is news, not rampant liberality. How long did the media blithely go along with anything Bush and his people said? Now that they are FINALLY getting of their asses and asking real questions instead of printing spoon fed Pubbie propaganda, they are liberal? Bullshit.

This is getting silly!

Gigo, your post in the main appears to argue mainly that Goldberg never “systematically proved” his allegation of a biased media was so, therefore his book can’t be taken seriously. Again, we’re getting into the realm of opinion and conclusions based on observation and analyzation – which I know you guys hate because you can’t go scurrying around looking for some statistic or liberal claim that can be misapplied in an effort to prove them wrong – but Goldberg’s book is his explanation of how he came to perceive liberal media bias and the events that either shaped this perception or illustrate it.

In the world of politics and morals, there is no absolute right or wrong that exists as an irrefutable fact. Everything is an opinion or belief. Many things that were considered wrong 100 years are just peachy now, and vice versa. There are many things that were once considered good that are now considered bad. (And, who knows…given enough time they may reverse themselves yet again.)

Things like the weather are absolute. Rain exists fordogs, cats, lions, and humans. It can’t be denied, and all living creatures are aware of its existence.

Good and bad (and liberal or conservative, for that matter) are human constructs. They exist only in our minds and in the way we decide to perceive them. They don’t exist as absolutes that can be “systematically proven.”

Goldberg’s book is a recitation of his observations and the beliefs that grew from them. Nothing more, nothing less. And the opinions he’s formed as a result of lifetime observation are not negated by a faulty illustration here or a misapplication of some fact or the other there.

And, although I know you and many others of a similar mind around would love to disagree when it suits your purposes, you can’t legitimately take a look at a hundred allegations, search out one that happens to be in error, and declare therefore that all one hundred are bogus.

The same applies with SteveG1’s recitation of this quote or that fact from a largely liberal number of cites. Occasional harsh treatment of a liberal politician or occasional support of a conservative goal does not mean more or less permanent and ongoing bias against the right does not exist.

From now on I’m going to adopt the same position in this thread that I do in offline life where I rarely concern myself with whether or not someone believes me when I say something. All I can do is tell the truth; whether you choose to believe it is your problem.

Left-wing media bias exists. It has a long tradition and goes back at least eighty years and probably longer. I see it. Millions of other Americans see it. The only reason you and others like you don’t see it is because you’re aligned with it.

I will never convince you otherwise, so there is no point in continuing to tilt at windmills. Believe what you wish, but know that you’ll continue to be frustrated and angered by the ever-increasing popularity and support of outlets and spokespeople such as Fox and Limbaugh withour ever realizing that the media bias you so fervently deny is directly responsible for their very existence and growth.

So you claim there’s a liberal bias, and when you are given evidence there isn’t, you accuse the source of that evidence as being liberally biased.

Do you see that you have a non-falsifiable belief?

I say there is bias in the media against purple hedgehogs. Any evidence that is provided to me that there isn’t such a bias, well, those must come from sources that are anti-purple-hedgehog.

Just out of curiosity, suppose the media doesn’t have a liberal bias, or even has liberal bias but loses it. Do you see that there’s no possible way you will ever be convinced of it not being biased, because any evidence to the contrary will be dismissed as being part of the bias you believe in on faith?

Not only does he see it, he luxuriates in it. I have an opinion. I’ll spit it at you and lie back and enjoy the outcome. Because it is only my opinion. It’s not based in fact or subject to falsification.

“Ignorance. You’re soaking in it.”

“Ancient conservative secret, huh?”

Not quite. I see the odd nugget of a contrarian tidbit accompanied the declaration that the tidbit is proof against the whole. Few things in life are absolute. Media bias is not evident in every, single, word or comment to come out of the media. The fact that someone can come up with an illustration of the odd moment when it’s not in evidence is not evidence in and of itself that media bias does not exist.

Yes. That’s why I believe it. :smiley:

No, I do not. For example, I have seen a lessening of bias at CNN of late – no doubt a result of the fact that Fox and O’Reilly are beating the crap out of it in the ratings, along with the concomitant and recent realization that much of the country does indeed see bias in the way they’ve reported in the past – and I am able both to see that fact and to be more willing to watch CNN and read its website as a result. In fact, CNN is almost tied with Fox now as to where I turn in order to get most of my day’s news, both online and over the air.

Hey, coming for more helpings of crow is. :slight_smile:

We don’t hate looking around for evidence:

Opinions are good, but without evidence to back them, they are useless opinions.

It is also yours, and in the SDMB we look at the evidence to make a better choice.

Have you heard the adage that the truth hurts? After all we did go trough, one can take a guess on why there are Fox viewers.

Traditionally, truth and justice are represented as a naked woman but is mostly the status quo who makes a concerted effort to hide it. Some in the right do take that literally.

Wrong, the one tilting the windmills is people like in the left that in conclusion have no automatic way to get the mainstream to jump to their points, the power is currently with the owners of all, and when silly excuses are found to even have any alternative view on Air forces radio like what is happening to Ed Schultz, you should never forget that we care more on being right than in being popular.

The reality still remains: if the mainstream was liberal, there would not be any news that the left consider important left out of the reports and opinions appearing in outfits like Air America or Common dreams, it is a fact that the majority of the news they touch are barely touched by the mainstream.

The fact that the mainstream sometimes, for fairness sake, deals with those topics is evil to people like you, a silly standard.

Hence we have FOX, but people like me don’t mind that much, unlike some we do take freedom of speech seriously, what we do mind is that outfits like Fox call themselves “fair and balanced”.

There can be no balance when lies are advanced, just because they sound so nice coming from Rush or Coulter, and are “increasing in popularity” (and there is data contradicting that) does not mean it becomes the truth:

Finally more evidence of what the bias we really have in media is here:

http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/004008.php

But why isn’t that okay as an argument to make against the guy? I’m a death penalty opponent in all cases because there simply are not enough Hitler and Stalins to make exceptions, although I’d cheerfully off either of them if given the chance. American politics today is replete with examples of making mountains out of molehills and illogically smearing one’s opponent. In this case, the guy actually said the statement in response to a question.

Meant to say: The reality still remains: If the mainstream was liberal, there would not be any news that the left considers important out of the headlines. The majority of reports and opinions appearing in outfits like Air America or Commondreams.com would be repeated in the mainstream if they were liberal. It is a fact that the majority of the news the truly liberal sites do report remains barely touched by the mainstream.

Here I could go biblical and point about that old tale about the house divided against itself: if you still insist places like CNN or CBS or ABC are liberal I would expect them to be in the good graces of the left. This has not happened, and ever since 1936 it does mean little that a good number of reporters are liberal, the bottom-line rules.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/articles/04/08/10_cnn.html

Vanderbilt University has a media news collection that includes all of the network nightly news broadcasts going back to at least the early 1970’s and possibly the 1960’s. They are made available for research.

Those who study communication, political science and other fields find an undeniable source of statistical information there. I feel reasonably certain there have been many studies.

To me, that is what would tell the truth rather than a book with examples taken out of context. Some of the examples may illustrate a momentary bias, but it wouldn’t give an overall picture.

The errors that have been pointed out in Goldberg’s book do indicate that he is careless with the facts and not very reliable. I would look to another source.

If the media has had such a liberal bias for the last five years, why have liberals been so frustrated with the coverage? Why have there been so many complaints about pop stories instead of in depth investigative coverage of the Neo-cons, torture memos, Guantanamo, pre-war intelligence, and pre-2000 planning for the war in Iraq?

It’s only natural that anything that doesn’t have a conservative viewpoint looks biased to anyone from the right.

The reason those of you on the far left can’t see the Liberal bias is because it is to the right of you. To you, the media looks balanced slightly to the right, perhaps. It’s all a matter of perspective.

As the study I cited said, the media has a narrative. It exists in a fairly narrow ideological range somewhat left of center. Ideas from either side of the comfortable niche they’ve hollowed out of the zeitgeist are either ignored, belittled. or tivialized.

This rigidity of thought has now spawned all kinds of independent media. And not just on the right. Daily Kos is a political force, because he represents an awful lot of readers.

But the incredibly rapid rise and dominance of Fox News shows that there was a pretty big gap between the media and the people, and Rupert Murdoch filled it. As did Rush Limbaugh. If the mainstream media truly had no bias, Fox would have had a harder time of it.

As I said before one has to follow the news not the olds (the status quo=the ones in power) I still think that by nature many times the news will sound liberal, as the Plame leak shows.

If you have not noticed yet, I am approaching the bias issue from the accuracy angle: here is a case were Rush is flatly lying:

Once again: Are you guys on the right saying that **showing no bias ** means to report dubious, lying or misleading reports that benefits the republican cause?