The right to bear arms

And yet his church has been OK with killing others in self defense for over a thousand years.

Damuri,

Agreed - those are establishments of religion.

I was referring to the words of the God.

Crane

Damuri#240,

IF natural rights are the result of ‘reason’ and religion then is the US Constitution a religious document?

Crane

Your god says a lot of things, some of which are contradictory-which words are followed and which are shunted aside? Man’s choice.

Not preaching - just the facts.

Jesus does not recognize a right of self defense.

As you point out, individuals and establishments of religion, may editorialize.

Crane

Your interpretation is just as valid as anyone else’s.

Sez who?

J.C.?
Was it J.C. that cited “an eye for an eye” as the BAD example, and then cited “turn the other cheek” as the proper standard?

CT#247,

Sez Jesus.

Perhaps you can give a biblical reference where Jesus supports self defense.

If so, that would be one basis for belief in pre-existing rights.

Crane

Luke 22:35-38

Interesting quote - Swords were required so that they would be among the transgressors.

Definitely against self defense.

Crane

That’s your interpretation. I’m not saying it’s wrong…but it isn’t the only interpretation of those verses, either.

I’m sure that’s true, but the wording is very clear. They are directed to buy swords for the sole purpose of fulfilling a prophecy, not to use them. They get two swords and Jesus says ‘it’s enough’ - been there done that.

Crane

I’m sticking with what I said previously.
If it was that clear-cut(so to speak), there wouldn’t be other interpretations.