I don’t know why the discussion has got back around to this. You don’t like open carry? Fine. I don’t either. I’m with you on that. But why are we talking like KR and his buddy were the only ones open carrying firearms that night? As was stated by at least one prosecution witness there were dozens of armed people in the streets. Many were not on the side of KR. And that’s been the case in every open carry state where demonstrations happen.
I asked earlier about this, but the thread was moving fast. I have only lived in open carry states, and I’m curious: If Rittenhouse had been in a non-open-carry state, what would the applicable law have been? I just don’t know what that looks like. Would the rifle have to be in a case in a non-open-carry state? Or not carried at all unless he was going somewhere like hunting or target shooting? Just curious what those laws cover.
He’s already carrying that rifle in a very tense looking way. Not like the guy in front of him. That guy’s trigger hand is relaxed, but resting in a ready position. His other hand is relaxed and off the rifle, I think.
KR is like, ready to shoot in that picture. Trigger hand is tense, finger alongside the trigger, gun pointing more at an angle than down, in part because his left arm is pretty tense too.
From some Googling, it looks like the difference between “low ready” (KR) and “safe hang” (other guy)?
If you are asking if he did what he did in a non-open carry state, then yes, what he did would not have been legal and he could have been stopped by police. Basically, it’s a misdemeanor (at least in California which is the only non-open carry state I can think of off the top of my head) with, I think, a maximum sentence of 1 year and $1000 dollars (it might have changed since the last time I recall this stuff).
I’m in a very gun un-friendly state. I really can’t answer for other states. There is no open carry. There is an assault weapons ban. It is theoretically possible to get a concealed carry permit but unless you are a cop it’s basically impossible to get one. If you are going hunting or target shooting it better be locked in the trunk of your car while in transit. In my state if he was walking down the street carrying a rifle at minimum he would be arrested for weapons possession. As would the others in this case that were carrying.
If we are looking at the same picture (from up thread), I’m seeing both of them carrying safely. Neither has their finger on the trigger. Both have the guns pointed down. The guy with the hat on backward (I presume that’s Rittenhouse) does look tense and his finger is up over the trigger, instead of relaxed and down below the trigger guard. But neither has their finger on the trigger, and neither has the gun in an up position. I will say that I wouldn’t want the guy with the backward-facing hat behind me, but he doesn’t seem to be doing anything obviously threatening or wrong there.
No, I was commenting on someone saying that KR may have gotten scared when he and the other guy got separated. I think he already looks tense in that picture, so I’m guessing he was already scared.
I wasn’t saying he was carrying wrong, just more “ready” than the other guy. With, presumably no particular reason. He does not look relaxed.
What’s he doing there? He’s not protesting. He’s threatening people. That’s why he’s there. His whole presence is, “Don’t do anything I don’t like, because I have a big gun and I’m quite prepared to use it.” That seems threatening to me.
I went to lots of protest in my earlier years, and I never saw anyone but a cop carrying a weapon.
Totally agree…that’s why I wouldn’t want him walking behind me! He is not carrying professionally, and he has his finger tense and over the trigger, instead of relaxed.
And what we’ve been saying repeatedly is: times have changed. Open carry is now common at protests in States/cities where open carry is legal. I don’t think it is fair, accurate, or balanced to say that someone open carrying at a protest is “threatening” people. It’s become normalized.
None of this is to say it’s smart, or that I personally support it–I generally don’t like performative open carry whatever the purpose, but you’re just not connected to the way these protests have been going down if you think it’s all that unusual or bizarre that someone was walking around with an AR-15 at a protest in an open carry state. Further, you can find other pictures of Kenosha protests, including the ones that happened the previous two nights, where people were walking around armed. One of the witnesses at the Rittenhouse trial remarked that he had personally been to over one hundred protests, and always went armed. Now, he was concealed carrying. But let that sink in that there’s a person there who had previously been at 100 protests. Now realize there are thousands of people in that same boat. This stuff has become its own subculture of behavior.
Anyone trying to paint the picture that it was reasonable or even realistic that KR starts walking down the streets of Kenosha and huge crowds of people are running away in panic, all shouting “Oh my god a gunman!” prior to the Rosenbaum shooting, just aren’t being realistic. People got into a panic because someone was shot. There was likely no panic before that, and if there was it wasn’t related to people carrying guns.
Kenosha may have to pay for that
If that seems threatening to you then I don’t know what to say. Neither is threatening anyone in the picture that I can see. I think that many of you basically feel that anyone with a gun is threatening (unless it’s the myriad protesters who ALSO had guns that have been pointed out numerous times in this and other threads)…then it seems to be ok, or at least something ignored.
Being prepared to use a gun is not the same thing as threatening someone with a gun. Generally, pointing a gun at someone is a threat. And, from what I recall, he did do that…but he did that after he was already being threatened by people in the crowd, or at least that seems to be what the jury thought.
Um…I’ve been to a bunch of protests, and I’ve seen plenty of guns. And there are numerous pictures that were posted in this thread, IIRC, of protesters and counter-protesters with guns. So, not sure what you are getting at here. Are you saying you just have no personal experience or stating that guns are never brought to protests? I mean…you know one of the people involved in this that wasn’t Rittenhouse had a handgun, right? And that Rittenhouse, his friend, and the dude with the handgun weren’t the only ones there with guns…right?
I’m pretty certain the guy on the right is Rittenhouse as he has quite a stocky build. The slack-jawed asshole with the baseball cap on backwards is the buddy who allegedly supplied him with the weapon.
As for “doesn’t seem to be doing anything obviously threatening or wrong there”, I beg to differ. A couple of assholes armed with AR-15s at a protest (or anywhere else) is a tragedy waiting to happen. Look, I’m not getting into another gun debate here – that would be a topic for another thread, and I probably wouldn’t participate anyway because it’s futile – but it’s virtually certain that as I said upthread, anyone doing this sort of thing in any civilized country that is not the USA would not only be arrested and face substantial criminal charges, but they’d probably be arrested by a heavily armed SWAT team, not regular police. They are a clear and present danger to everyone around them. And that’s all that needs to be said. The gun-culture element here is just astonishing. And to those who think the Second Amendment justifies this kind of reckless endangerment, see @Loach’s post just before yours.
Well, then, his buddy does not look like he knows what he’s doing, while the guy in front at least looks like he does. I don’t know which is which as I haven’t followed the case that closely and only vaguely know what Rittenhouse looks like and have no idea about his buddy.
Like I said, to you and many in this thread, anyone with a gun is going to look threatening. As to the rest about what would happen in other countries that seems fairly irrelevant. I know you are looking at this from, IIRC, a Canadian perspective, but we aren’t in Canada…or Europe…or Japan…or China. We aren’t even talking about being in California, where different rules apply. As with all of those places, we have our own norms and rules that are agreed upon by a majority of our population, so what happens in those other countries is meaningless to us…as is the way we do things being irrelevant to you and the rest.
If he walked into a grocery store like that, or a high school, or a law office, someone would call the cops. I hate to think bringing a gun to a crowded and angry situation has become “normalized.” I believe you if you say it has, but it’s terrible, in my opinion.
It shows terrible judgment, and has to be intended to be provocative.
The caption from that photo:
Kyle Rittenhouse (left) walks with “boogaloo boi” Ryan Balch in Kenosha, Wisconsin, on Tuesday, Aug. 25, 2020.
Rittenhouse is on the left. Ryan Balch – former Army Infantry – is on the right.
I’m curious.
Why does a cop need a CCW permit? Doesn’t your states laws exempt peace officers from concealed carry prohibitions? And then there is HR218 which does not require any form of licensing or permit, just your ID card.
Again–what I’m specifically pointing out is it is not reasonable to pretend that people confronted Rittenhouse because they were “afraid he had a gun”, because him having a gun was not notable. You can observe many other protesters that night walking around with guns. The rest is talking about something else entirely. I don’t really care what people’s opinions are on open carry, in fact I know most of them based on the posts. What I’m saying is you can’t use that as a legal cudgel to claim Rosenbaum was acting in good faith.
It appears you’re correct. Maybe something about the lighting. In pictures from the trial, KR looks to me a lot more like the guy on the right. Thanks for the correction.
Ohhh, read my mind first!
Okay, I’ll accept that. But I still see Rittenhouse (and all the others) as threatening, and intentionally so. You have to wonder, though, why Rittenhouse was perceived as more of a threat than any of the others, since he was the only one with a gun that was attacked.