The Schiavo Case

[Fear_Itself]

@lekatt

Now, as for attacking me, I know that all attacks are a call for help from those who are fearful.

Yes, I am afraid if I read any more of your posts, my head will esplode.

[Hamlet]

Lekatt, trying to debate facts, positions, or ideals on the Schiavo case with you, is an exercise in futility, one which I have neither the time, nor the inclination, to go through. I merely wanted to point out the mudslinging and irrationality of your position, by providing the readers of this thread a website with actual facts and information. I’ve accomplished that goal, and any other “discourse” with you will be beating my head against a wall. And I’m afraid I’m not going to do that.

[Steve_MB]

@widdleytinks

So, in other words, she may not have been of sound mind when she made her comments to her husband and others about not wanting heroic efforts to prolong her life?
Hoo boy, here we go. I’m surprised the ringmasters presiding over this circus didn’t bring that up when there was still time to “save” her.

I know, I know. I thought of that just recently. I wonder why the Schindler’s didn’t

The most obvious answer is that it hit too close to home (the parents, correctly or otherwise, suspected that they had caused her psychological problems in the first place).

[Steve_MB]

@lekatt

The real facts are only hearsay

When an argument starts out like this, you just know that nothing good is going to come of it. :rolleyes:

[lekatt]

@Hamlet

Lekatt, trying to debate facts, positions, or ideals on the Schiavo case with you, is an exercise in futility, one which I have neither the time, nor the inclination, to go through. I merely wanted to point out the mudslinging and irrationality of your position, by providing the readers of this thread a website with actual facts and information. I’ve accomplished that goal, and any other “discourse” with you will be beating my head against a wall. And I’m afraid I’m not going to do that.

I read the website, it said nothing more than was already known.

Your attacks are unfounded.

[E-Sabbath]

One can never trust what lekatt says. Thus, I checked.
http://ap.tbo.com/ap/florida/MGBUOONS66E.html
This appears to be the Vatican’s stance on the matter, sans hyperbole.
The personal position of a gentleman who is head of the committee on sainthood seems to be the ‘attack on god’ part.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/politics/2002227121_tschiavo01.html
I fail to see his specific expertise on the matter.

[Hamlet]

@lekatt

I read the website, it said nothing more than was already known.

How did you read it, with your eyes closed, your fingers in your ears, and your head firmly planted up your ass?

@lekatt

What really happened to Terri?

@AbstractAppeal

On February 25, 1990, . . . Theresa, age 27, suffered a cardiac arrest as a result of a potassium imbalance. Michael called 911, and Theresa was rushed to the hospital. She never regained consciousness.

Dr. Wolfson’s December 2003 report to Governor Bush included this bit of factual history:
The cause of the cardiac arrest was adduced to a dramatically reduced potassium level in Theresa’s body. Sodium and potassium maintain a vital, chemical balance in the human body that helps define the electrolyte levels. The cause of the imbalance was not clearly identified, but may be linked, in theory, to her drinking 10-15 glasses of iced tea each day. While no formal proof emerged, the medical records note that the combination of [Theresa’s] aggressive weight loss, diet control and excessive hydration raised questions about Theresa from Bulimia, an eating disorder, more common among women than men, in which purging through vomiting, laxatives and other methods of diet control become obsessive.

The case was tried to a jury, which ruled in Michael’s favor, finding that Terri had bulimia, that her bulimia caused her cardiac arrest, and that the doctors were negligent in failing to diagnose the situation.

@lekatt

There was over one million dollars involved, what were the circumstances and who got the money after it was over.

@AbstractAppeal

the parties settled, with Michael recovering approximately $750,000 for Terri and $300,000 for himself.

@From AP

More than half of the $700,000 earmarked from the malpractice award for Terri Schiavo’s care has been spent for that purpose, with the rest going toward litigation, said Deborah Bushnell, one of Michael Schiavo’s attorneys.

As of mid-March, just $40,000 to $50,000 remained of that money, Bushnell said, and was held in a trust fund. A judge approves all expenditures, from attorneys’ fees to the woman’s haircuts.

Terri Schiavo’s medical costs - which Bushnell says are relatively small - have been paid for the past couple of years by the state’s Medicaid program for needy people.

@lekatt

What was the real reason he preferred her dead, instead of in the care of her parents.

@AA

Theresa has been blessed with loving parents and a loving husband. Many patients in this condition would have been abandoned by friends and family within the first year. Michael has continued to care for her and to visit her all these years. He has never divorced her. He has become a professional respiratory therapist and works in a nearby hospital. As a guardian, he has always attempted to provide optimum treatment for his wife. He has been a diligent watch guard of Theresa’s care, never hesitating to annoy the nursing staff in order to assure that she receives the proper treatment.
Recently, Michael received an offer of $1 million, and perhaps a second offer of $10 million, to walk away from this case and permit Terri’s parents to care for her. These offers, assuming there were two, were based on a misunderstanding of the situation here. Michael lacks the power to undo the court order determining Terri’s wishes and requiring the removal of her feeding tube. He did not make the decision and cannot unmake it. The court made the decision on Terri’s behalf. Nonetheless, Michael apparently rejected each offer.

@lekatt

Question after question. The case was a disgrace on the Judicial system.

The judicial system followed the law. The judicial system applied that law to the situation. The judicial system did what they are supposed to do, recognize and stand up for the wishes of Ms. Schiabo. What they did not do was kowtow to the pressure of an gullible, idiotic public that swims in the sea of willing ignorance. For that, they should be applauded.

As you’ve proven, once again, there is absolutely no point in discussing this with you. Anyone reading this can check for themselves and rebut whatever misinformation you continue to spew, whatever false and hate-filled accusations you make, and whatever ignorance you display.

[Mockingbird]

@lekatt

Now, as for attacking me, I know that all attacks are a call for help from those who are fearful.

Gee. And here I see you as being fearful and hiding from reality in a web of lies that support your views which would force everyone to do as you would do.

[flight]

OK, so she has been dead for a while now. What came of the autopsy? Was there any living cerebral material? Was it, as they expected, purely fluid?

[wonderwench]

[QUOTE=widdleytinks]

@wonderwench

I do find it appalling that Michael, as a virtually estranged husband due to his having another family (common law wife and kids), was allowed to make the decision. He should have spared the nation and her family the trauma of the conflict and given up custody.QUOTE]

You are wrong in so many ways. Michael Schiavo was in no way an “estranged husband”. He was present and accounted for during the entire 15 years that his wife Terri was hospitalized, throughout her years of rehabilitative therapy and at her side when she died. Michael’s relationship with another woman did not and does not legally constitute “common law” marriage in the state of Florida. Wherever did you get that idea?

So far as sparing the nation goes…you meant the Schindler’s right?

regards,
widdley

Riddle me this: Do you think Terri would have wanted Michael making the life or death decision if she had known he was living with another woman who had borne him children?

I doubt it.

[wonderwench]

@widdleytinks

I missed something here.

You might not believe this story, wonder, but not a few years ago I was rendered totally unconscious following which my body was actually cut open, parts of it removed, my skin sewed up and afterwards I was given morphine. And not only that, the ruthless bastard who cut open my body watched the entire horrific episode on a screen where views were generated by a camera inserted directly into my abdomen! I kid you not!

regards,
widdley

I suspect that the doctor operating on you gave you morphine to prevent you from feeling pain.

Terri was given morphine for the same reason.

Why?

Because she was not brain dead.

[wonderwench]

@David Simmons

It would also be a good idea for wonderwench to look up “euthanized.” Schiavo was not, not, not, euthanized.

And regardless of how we sugar coat it many people with fatal illnesses that don’t kill quickly are weakened from malnutrition and their heart fails or they die of pneumonia, all of it under the influence of morphine or other narcotics.

You may view the cause of her death in whatever manner gives you comfort.

Terri was not ill. She was not on the verge of death. She was just severely brain-damaged.

In my concept of reality, withholding nutrition from a disabled person until they die from organ failure is euthanasia.

[wonderwench]

@Fear Itself

Terri Schiavo was never given any morphine injections, or intravenous morphine. I know it makes your argument more dramatic to make this claim, but please stick to the facts:

Why on earth was she given any morphine at all?

Sorry. The facts dispute your contention.

[wonderwench]

@Hamlet

Throughout this entire episode, you have tried your damnedest to remain completely ignorant of the facts. In thread after thread, your insane ramblings have been discussed, dissected, refuted, and debunked, yet you insist, like a salmon against the stream of intelligent discourse, to make false allegations, to misstate facts, and to revel in your own willing ignorance. If wonderwench is any indication, it just may be contagious.

I just thought the readers of this thread should take your post for what it is really worth… absolutley nothing.

Obligatory link to factual, helpful information

I can accuse you of the very same behavior.

This case tests a very important value we used to hold dear in this society: protection of those who are too weak to take care of themselves.

I suggest reading the commentary in the following link - it is by a disabled Harvard student. He nails the issue.

http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=506716

[wonderwench]

@Steve MB

The most obvious answer is that it hit too close to home (the parents, correctly or otherwise, suspected that they had caused her psychological problems in the first place).

Oh for Pity’s Sake.

Parents wishing to take care of their severely disabled daughter MUST be doing it because they are in denial over contributing to her condition.

I suppose the concept of parental love is not in your universe.

[Hamlet]

@wonderwench

Riddle me this: Do you think Terri would have wanted Michael making the life or death decision if she had known he was living with another woman who had borne him children?

Riddle me this, how many times can a person ignore the facts and continue to spew made up crap? FYI, Michael didn’t make the decision, the court did.

Michael Schiavo did not make the decision to discontinue life-prolonging measures for Terri. . . . Rather than make the decision himself, Michael followed a procedure permitted by Florida courts by which a surrogate such as Michael can petition a court, asking the court to act as the ward’s surrogate and determine what the ward would decide to do. . . . The trial court in this case held a trial on the dispute. Both sides were given opportunities to present their views and the evidence supporting those views. Afterwards, the trial court determined that, even applying the “clear and convincing evidence” standard – the highest burden of proof used in civil cases – the evidence showed that Terri would not wish to continue life-prolonging measures.

[Avenger]

I suggest reading the commentary in the following link - it is by a disabled Harvard student. He nails the issue.

Which issue do you think it nails?

[Avenger]

@wonderwench

I suspect that the doctor operating on you gave you morphine to prevent you from feeling pain.

Terri was given morphine for the same reason.

Why?

Because she was not brain dead.

Who said she was brain dead?

[wonderwench]

@Hamlet

Riddle me this, how many times can a person ignore the facts and continue to spew made up crap? FYI, Michael didn’t make the decision, the court did.

Without Michael’s instigation, the court never would have ordered her death.

[Voyager]

@wonderwench

I suspect that the doctor operating on you gave you morphine to prevent you from feeling pain.

Terri was given morphine for the same reason.

Why?

Because she was not brain dead.

Why don’t you read the existing threads. It seems that sometimes morphine is given out of habit, though it is not indicated.

And she was not brain dead, she was in a PVS. There is a difference. Nevertheless, do you think she had higher brain functions? Was she responsive? If so, with what was she thinking?